Bach strad cornet 1953-55

[BlueLolz]

This horn plays beautifully but I don't know whether or not to get it relacquered or even chem cleaned. Parts of the horn are looking red (red rot?). It's a 13xxx made in Mt. Vernon. Would the value change of the horn if I get it cleaned and lacquered? Please also let me know if I should post this elsewhere as I don't have much experience with the use of the forums yet.

(Edit #1): condition is playable and adjustable on all slides and valves. Springs a little noisy and the third valve slide sticks a little more than the rest. Pictures coming in about an hour ( currently 1:19 pm EST).

(Edit #2): My ideal scenario is to preserve and play until I would like to sell it or pass it down.
http://imgur.com/a/WkntvCP
_________________
Excuse the username, keep playing trumpet!

[Danbassin]

[OldSchoolEuph]

Is its purpose to be seen, or heard? If it plays great, don't mess with much. If you can post pictures, the "red" can be discussed. Patches of red where lacquer is failing is usually acid staining from the air, your hands, etc and harmless (though ugly). Actual red rot appears in dots of bubbled lacquer that eventually turn pink as the acid leeches out onto the surface and acid stains it, but are most critically a tiny hole that usually appears as a black dot in the middle of the bubbled lacquer.

Acid baths, ultrasonics, etc. are all aggressive, and best used only if really necessary. For a horn of this vintage and value as a player, it should go to a restoration specialist to determine the minimally aggressive cleaning needed - not the local tech to add to his latest batch of 100 rental horns to blast the gunk out of.

The lacquer on the horn now is nitrocellulose and fairly thick. It will dampen some frequencies. New lacquer is epoxy typically (unless you find someone who will use the old stuff, which has OSHA and other issues in bulk application) and very thin/light. It will not dampen the same way. Additionally, buffing to prep for finish will remove some metal. How much depends on the skill of the buffer. Buffing can change the response noticeably, the tone on the bell side a little, and the tone you hear behind it a lot.

Competent in=person analysis by a restoration expert is the best bet if you want it to continue to play the way you are used to and like.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Danbassin]

Happy news upon seeing the photos is much if not all of the surface tarnish/rust/red coloration is just oxidation and not dezincification. The thing to look out for in red rot are the little “pimples” that appear in plating or as bullseye green-red-yellow blotches. The center of those spots eventually grows, becomes brittle, and over time may lead to pinholes in around that location in the part, necessitating patching or replacing.

The portion of the valves you posted also doesn’t show any loss of plating/patches of exposed brass and severe wear.

A highly qualified repair person with experience in restoration should know the right application to clean the finish of the horn, likely a dip solution which will turn the clock back on the oxidation and overall patina of the horn. (Be prepared to have a shiny/brassy finish for only the first few weeks after this process, as a patina will again begin as the material gets exported to oxygen while certain parts are also exposed to the oils from your hand, are dried at different rates after going into the case, etc. The mechanical issues w the 3rd valve should also be easily regulated unless some real damage has occurred. Similarly, the dent in the curve of the bell tail could be balled out, and if the tech takes the bell off for this, they could also reassemble the bracing with less stress to optimize performance.

Lacquer is a personal choice, which -as has been stated above- used to have more of an impact on the final sound product more back in the days heavier coating, different materials, and now ‘outdated’ application procedures. For me, I like raw brass horns of modern and vintage designs. There have been a few where I’ve had plating removed and have not regretted it, but I’ve also played some colleagues’ instruments both pre and post lacquering and haven’t noticed any change for the better or worse…I suppose this is to say that my personal bias in favor of raw brass may be as much aesthetic nowadays as some else’s preference for lacquer. Ultimately, I think my philosophy for restoring older horns would be aligned with the Hippocratic Oath: first do no harm.

Cool find on the MtV7C. If the shank end/backbore is in good shape, enjoy playing it on its matching horn of more than half a century. Vincent Bach’s mpc was the 6, FYI and the cornet versions around that size have simething special about them with his vintage instruments.

Happy practicing!
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD

[Dale Proctor]

If I planned on keeping it, I’d have it refurbished by a GOOD shop that knows how to restore a nice instrument. There’s not enough original lacquer remaining to worry about affecting the value by having it refinished. How’s the bell engraving? Still sharp and clear?
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[nieuwguyski]

I would have the horn serviced to bring it up to top, unrestored playing condition (cleaned, slides aligned, water-key corks replaced as necessary, valve felts and spacers replaced as necessary and valves visually aligned), and then I'd play it.

I would only have it refinished if my hands reacted to the raw brass. I've known players whose hands turned green and reeked with a nasty smell if they played a raw brass horn for a single rehearsal. I've played a number of unfinished trumpets for long periods and I've never had an issue.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[Winghorn]

Maybe I am a romantic, but I would leave the cornet original, with it's life story on display for all to see.

Even skilled and sensitive relacquering has the potential, although maybe slight, to change how an instrument plays.

But for me the main reason to keep the cornet original is so that it will remain a classic Bach, through and through.

Steve

[Dale Proctor]

With 90% of the lacquer gone, it already isn’t original any more…
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Winghorn]

Good point, Dale!

But it is original in the sense that nothing modern has been added to it, and what is left is all Bach's handiwork.

[Dale Proctor]

True. I suppose I’m biased, because I don’t like raw brass horns.
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham