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Conn Liberator???


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Johnny-Highnote
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 264
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm...
This Valves look like Besson or Boosey Valves-and this first-slide Saddle holder looks very british to me... (maybe Mike should take a look at the pics.. )
Is there realy a engraving on the bell that says Conn-Elkhart,or Conn-USA
or whatever with the word CONN?????
What is the serial-number of the horn??
If the number says something like 500 000-700 000 and the engraving says Conn (without Elkart) it´s possibly a very rare one of the time,when Conn moved back to Elkhart (1980-1985~)
They made some horns like the Century and the Herritage in this Years
(not shure,if they realy where made at Conn-i guess they only made the 38B themselves,all other stuff was imported from Yamaha)
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Dennis


38b "Frankenconn" with Bauerfeind Valve block/ Yamaha 6345G /Yamaha 631/Courtois 154G / Curry+Klier 1,5 mpc`s
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StevenPSparks
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They look ok from here, but just a bit small.
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plp
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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Location: South Alabama

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The top and bottom valve caps, and buttons, are identical to my B and H Emperor.

I'm curious about the mouthpiece. That must be a trombone player's doubler 'piece, or for somebody with a head the size of a bowling ball.
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that Liberator looks nothing like the Conn 60B, so I am absolutely positive that the trumpet Maynard is holding in some old photos from the late 1960s is a C. G. Conn 60B.
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C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
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Tarh331_Dad
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Joined: 30 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a new YouTube, posted a month ago, of The Boss, playing "Take the A-Train", in 1969, somewhere in the greater Anglosphere [BBC or CBC or wherever; the studio piano is "C. Bechstein"]:


Link


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7W29ACsGzw

And here are some screen shots:









Horn-u-copia doesn't have much for Boosey-Hawkes trumpets:

http://horn-u-copia.net/display.php?starton=0&secondsel=+and+instrument%3D%22Trumpet%22&selby=+where+maker%3D%22Boosey-Hawkes+%22

Here's Christine's picture of the Sixty-B:



Neither Holton Loyalist nor Horn-u-Copia has a picture of the "Holton ST-301".

But here's a Holton Loyalist picture of the ST-302:



Truth be told, the Sixty-B and the ST-302 look almost like stencils of one another.
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Tarh331_Dad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my eye, the distinctive features on that 1969 video are the fully circular ring [rather than a half-circular hook] for the right pinky finger, and also a "top screw" [???] on the end of the first valve tuning slide.



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supertrump
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Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn that Maynard played whilst living in Manchester, England was indeed called a Liberator, manufactured in Bradford, Yorkshire from 1969 to around 1972 by Ferguson Bell Ltd. A firm set up by MF and Jack Bell. I was told that it was a Besson valve block that the Ferguson Bell Company used. They are engraved on the left hand side of the bell: Maynard Ferguson Liberator and on the other side stamped: Ferguson Bell Ltd, Bradford - England. The horn I saw was marked "SB 453" I presume referring to the small bore size .453”.

Maynard;
“When I went to England, I left Conn and went with the British Band Corporation, which is both English Besson and Boosey and Hawkes, where I designed my first trumpet. They called it the Liberator” – MF. At the time Boosey & Hawkes were one of the UK’s leading brass instrument manufacturers.

The Liberator I am told was a copy of MF's Conn Connstellation 38B. The Liberator is the trumpet that Maynard recorded with on albums such as The Ballad Style of Maynard Ferguson, MF Horn 1 & 2 and Alive and Well in London, Maynard also performed on his Liberator trumpet on the BBC TV special "The World of Maynard Ferguson” I think. Eric Miyashiro owns one I'm told.
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Tarh331_Dad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

supertrump wrote:
A firm set up by MF and Jack Bell.

When I was preparing that first screen shot from "Take the A Train", I felt like The Boss had an endorsement deal to lean back and show off the horn for the camera.

It would make even more sense if he had an ownership interest in the company.

I wonder what MF & JB were thinking with that "top screw" [or whatever it is] on the 1st valve tuning slide?

Intonation? Spit valve? Pressure modulator? Some sort of sonic dampener?
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Tarh331_Dad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as "sonic dampening" [or "un-dampening"] is concerned, there's a semi-infamous horn seller on eBay, who sold a 28A Connstellation a couple of months ago, where he claimed that he got really good results from changing out the third valve slide:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171659487404/

"One thing always bothered me: The dang 3rd-slide stop-rod and adjustable finger-pull ring assembly. These dreadful appurtenances seem to deaden the tone, and get in the way. My thinking, was that they cancelled-out &/or dampened the sweet, resonant harmonic frequencies of any notes requiring a 3rd-valve fingering ... and, probably dampened other undertones with the 3rd-valve not employed. Think about that .... On a hunch, I borrowed / switched-out slides from one of my Conn 22B trumpets, which shares the same .438" bore-size. The 3rd-slide of the 22B model does NOT have an adjustable slide-ring ... (the ring is soldered in place). Bingo! A Eureka Moment ! I was right. Soooo ... what we have here (on this horn), is a silver 3rd-slide from a silver-plated Conn 22B trumpet. AND -- that elusive, pure and sweet tone I yearned to hear. [ *note: I would like to keep this slide ring for myself, but I cannot find the original one.] If you are a dreaded "collector" / purist, you may pass on this horn. You have NO IDEA what you are missing."
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brent.m.watts4
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm.......interesting.....
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rhenssen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarh331_Dad wrote:
supertrump wrote:
A firm set up by MF and Jack Bell.
.

I wonder what MF & JB were thinking with that "top screw" [or whatever it is] on the 1st valve tuning slide?

Intonation? Spit valve? Pressure modulator? Some sort of sonic dampener?


It is just the piece that would hold a moveable 1st valve saddle. Just like the thing that holds the ring on the 3rd valve slide.
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