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Buzzing with a piano



 
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Rbmcneil
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Joined: 02 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:58 am    Post subject: Buzzing with a piano Reply with quote

To warm up I have been buzzing on my mouthpiece and using a piano to stay in pitch. I am on my first week of serious practice at 53 (I played in middle school but all I remember about that is sore lips and wanting a sax) I use C4 to C5 on the keyboard as my reference. Does it matter as long as I am in pitch with the note or should I start with Bb3 to Bb4 or am I over thinking this!
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over thinking a bit IMO. But I would suggest varying your tones.. playing 5 note scales that move: (slurred and sliding/bending not jumping from pitch to pitch)
Bb, C, D, E, F, E, D, C, Bb, rest.. C, D, E, F, G, F, E, D, C, rest... etc. Up and down as you can produce comfortably without distorting your chops)

I would be more concernded with the sound that you are making, a good chop set, and how much time you're spending on the mouthpiece alone vs. practicing the trumpet.

IMO buzzing is different than playing the trumpet. It can be a useful training guide with limitted use (warming up, ear training, focussing effort..). But because the tubing is so short, it's harder to tell if you're producing a good or bad tone. A mouthpiece buzz, a good one, is whispy and airy - more air, less buzz, without being forced.
Once you put the instrument together, your chops will adjust as you focus your tone.

If I'm practicing 60-120 min. per day, I may buzz for several minutes So that's like 1/12 or 1/24 of my practice time.. If you practice 30 minutes a day that's buzzing for only a minute or two.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But at your stage of development, I wouldn't do too much buzzing, lest you over tense the lips going for notes out of your comfortable range. I personally, again -at your stage-, would look at buzzing more as a warm-up just to get your lips moving and the blood flowing.
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Rbmcneil
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for the response...I try to limit the buzzing to around 5 mins before practice...Buzzing in tune chromatically with the piano gives me the sensation that I am building embouchure muscle control. Whether this is the case or simply a placebo effect...It feels like progress!
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Buzzing with a piano Reply with quote

Rbmcneil wrote:
To warm up I have been buzzing on my mouthpiece and using a piano to stay in pitch. I am on my first week of serious practice at 53 (I played in middle school but all I remember about that is sore lips and ...

---------------------------
The pitches on a piano are tuned slightly differently than on the trumpet, so 'training yourself' too rigidly to the intervals of a piano scale might cause trouble later.
For an example, playing a C and E together by 2 players on trumpet should sound 'good', but on a piano they don't - due to the 'equal temperament' tuning of piano.

On trumpet, the goal is to be able to play several (all!) of the major scales so that the relative intervals between the same 'steps' of each scale is consistent, and the sound of each scale is good. E.g. major scales of (trumpet notes) C, F, G, Bb, and D. The precise pitches of the various 'same notes' in each scale will be slightly different, so you have to listen carefully and adjust as needed.
The details about this is explained by the differences between 'Just Temperament' and 'Equal Temperament'.
And electronic tuners are adjusted for 'piano/equal temperament', they are good as a basic guide. They shouldn't be used to 'tune' each note.

Regarding 'sore lips' - yes the muscle usage will cause fatigued lip muscles. But if your early playing depended on high rim pressure, or stretched lips to play the higher notes, then you might have developed improper 'embouchure technique' - and yes it is a 'skill technique' that needs to be learned and trained. In many cases the early training of trumpet players ignores this requirement, for the sake of just getting decent sounding notes by beginning players. And then several years later those players 'hit the wall' and have to change their methods if they want to extend their range higher.

Relying on rim pressure and stretched lips will work for a while, but then can cause pain, injury, and lack of later progress.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzzing is more difficult than playing the horn. I wouldn't bother with it if you are just coming back.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a „true“ piano or an electronic piano of some sort? We have an electronic one which has the advantage you can select „organ“ and use that as a drone. That is, you play an note on the organ and then find the exact pitch of that note on your trumpet. Interesting experience, just started doing this a little while ago and find it very helpful for training the ear for intonation.

https://talkingtrumpet.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/drone-your-way-to-excellent-intonation/

Another thing my teacher told me is to just play random tones on the piano and identify them correctly. Will take awhile but is great if you need to orient yourself in a jam session or the like. This can of course also be done with buzzing or the trumpet.

Sorry for being off topic, sort of.
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Rbmcneil
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
Do you have a „true“ piano or an electronic piano of some sort? We have an electronic one which has the advantage you can select „organ“ and use that as a drone. That is, you play an note on the organ and then find the exact pitch of that note on your trumpet. Interesting experience, just started doing this a little while ago and find it very helpful for training the ear for intonation.

https://talkingtrumpet.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/drone-your-way-to-excellent-intonation/

Another thing my teacher told me is to just play random tones on the piano and identify them correctly. Will take awhile but is great if you need to orient yourself in a jam session or the like. This can of course also be done with buzzing or the trumpet.

Sorry for being off topic, sort of.





I use my Nord keyboard with the tone set a 5 seconds. I have been using the random note method this morning…Thank you for the advice…Bobby
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rbmcneil wrote:
Thank you both for the response...I try to limit the buzzing to around 5 mins before practice...Buzzing in tune chromatically with the piano gives me the sensation that I am building embouchure muscle control. Whether this is the case or simply a placebo effect...It feels like progress!


Buzzing the mouthpiece and playing the trumpet use muscles in different ways.

It's not about strength but coordination.
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