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Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff


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thickeyjr
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Joined: 13 May 2021
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:44 pm    Post subject: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff Reply with quote

Hello, I have been reading quite a few threads to help plan my comeback. I have some questions that I know are pretty broad, but I do appreciate any input. I played from elementary school through college, but it has been over 40 years since I played regularly. I was able to find a reasonably priced LA Benge 3x, which is what I played through college and was pleasantly surprised that I could get at least some sound out of it. My goals are to get my chops back and play in some kind of community band. I enjoyed a variety of styles, and still do. I was a solid amateur, but did not reach or aspire to a professional level. I was also more of a feel player than technical, but the years have taught me that a balance of both aspects are useful to really excel in anything.

I don't really have a timetable on rebuilding my chops, but I plan to spend structured time daily and rebuild my skill and endurance gradually. What kind of timeframe is reasonable if I maintain a disciplined approach and practice schedule? It won't change my goals, but I do want to have realistic expectations on progress (another lesson learned over the years).

I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense? I live in the Phoenix metro area, so any suggestions on good local teachers would be helpful. Online would also be an option.

Thanks for any input.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff Reply with quote

thickeyjr wrote:
I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense?

Lessons can be helpful from the start, to help you rebuild your old skills sooner, but also to catch any less useful habits you may have before they become set in stone (unlearning is a lot harder than learning, trust me). I'd say getting a teacher sooner rather than later is very beneficial, and, as long as playing the trumpet is something you're seriously going to pursue, it'll be worth the expense.

As for the comment about checking your ego, I think that's wise in general and especially when playing the trumpet. For lessons however, a teacher's goal is to help you improve, regardless of whatever skill level you happen to have when walking in. They simply care about the music, not about what you can do when you first meet them.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
thickeyjr wrote:
I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner? At what point would that be worth the expense?

Lessons can be helpful from the start, to help you rebuild your old skills sooner, but also to catch any less useful habits you may have before they become set in stone (unlearning is a lot harder than learning, trust me). I'd say getting a teacher sooner rather than later is very beneficial, and, as long as playing the trumpet is something you're seriously going to pursue, it'll be worth the expense.

As for the comment about checking your ego, I think that's wise in general and especially when playing the trumpet. For lessons however, a teacher's goal is to help you improve, regardless of whatever skill level you happen to have when walking in. They simply care about the music, not about what you can do when you first meet them.

Very good post. I will say it has been about 7 years since I started back and I still haven’t reached the level I had when I quit over 40 years ago. Some things have exceeded my previous level - such as range but only because I only had a hi f before and I felt I had to have the g I never had, kind of a qualifier to get serious, that took 6 years to get. I have not reached my previous ability in articulation, endurance or fingering. I think it’s reasonable progress given that I played 6 hours a day then and at most 2 now. I have more access to instructions and info now but the motivation to play at a very high level is not the same, and the opportunity to play the big band music I love only exists for the elite few these days - even in 1970 I could see the venue was dying. Be very reasonable in your expectations would be my advice and get and take any opportunity to get help, my tip would be Skype with Bobby Shew, he can give you enough in an hour to keep you busy for months - a very good investment. I started out thinking that in 2 years I would be playing at my old level and may have if I’d asked for help and practiced more, honestly that was an inflated ego talking.
Rod
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am also willing to commit to professional instruction, but my nature is that I would prefer to have recovered at least some of my lost skills before I do that. Should I check my ego and start lessons sooner?


Welcome back to trumpet playing! Start taking lessons as soon as you can. Working with a teacher will help ensure a good embouchure set up now. That's really important as embouchure-related issues are probably the #1 source of frustration for trumpet players, and trying to "fix" them after bad habits have formed is hard.

Also, your teacher can help you put together a daily practice routine that meets your needs and helps you progress toward your goals: What to practice, how to practice it, etc.

Good luck!
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Questions from a comeback player after a LONG layoff Reply with quote

thickeyjr wrote:
... My goals are to get my chops back and play in some kind of community band. I enjoyed a variety of styles, and still do. I was a solid amateur, but did not reach or aspire to a professional level. ...

--------------------
Joining a community band is a good idea, usually friendly people and not a competitive environment. Don't worry too much about needing high ability, being able to play at middle-school level should be enough to get started.
Another possibility is a college band that includes 'community members'.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get in touch with Dan Reed for lessons ASAP.

PM me for contact info
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always tended to be a proponent of doing things myself, but I think that maybe for someone who has had such a long layoff, getting someone who can assess what you are doing and what you need to work on, along with adding some real structure to it, is probably a good idea.

As others have said, an instructor can help you avoid some pitfalls and bad habits before they have a chance to form/reform, and they can streamline what you need to work on so that you'll improve and get back up to speed as quickly as possible.
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 steps of a trumpet comeback:

1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)
4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)

Seriously though, with a solid practice schedule and some monthly lessons there is no reason to think you wont be playing reasonably well within a year or so. Performance range, endurance and consistency takes a little longer.(still working on it) Joining a local community college band and playing in a municipal band really helps keep it fun. Good luck with your comeback.
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mikepodorski
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm about a year and a half ahead of you with a similar background. gwood66 is right about the 6 steps, lol.

This is one of the most humbling experiences, but I love it! I would say it took a solid year to get to the point where I felt comfortable playing in public. Don't put a time frame on your progress. Practice daily. Enjoy making music.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwood66 wrote:
6 steps of a trumpet comeback:

1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)
4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)

Seriously though, with a solid practice schedule and some monthly lessons there is no reason to think you wont be playing reasonably well within a year or so. Performance range, endurance and consistency takes a little longer.(still working on it) Joining a local community college band and playing in a municipal band really helps keep it fun. Good luck with your comeback.


Don't forget the internet search for "the answer".
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a brass quintet or chamber group you could play with? I have never stopped playing since I started so I'm not much help in sharing my experience, but I have played with comeback players in chamber groups. I think it is an excellent way to challenge yourself if you have a weekly group you play with. Brass quintet is great for working on sight-reading, blending, endurance, intonation, and playing expressively. I think it's ideal compared to a full community band, because you can really hear yourself and play independently while still making music with a group.
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gpena73
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comeback player here. I am loving it the second time around even more. If I could chime in here, I would stress the importance of rest. Both in between sessions and during sessions. The micro muscular of our chops are sensitive little birds and forcing things to happen only do us harm. Good luck! Shedding for life👍🏼
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:


Don't forget the internet search for "the answer".


Great.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwood66 wrote:
6 steps of a trumpet comeback:

1. Excitement (I don't need lessons, I'm going to be playing like a pro in no time)
2. Disillusionment (this is a lot more work than I remember)
3. Panic (I must be doing something wrong because I am not making rapid progress)

4. The new mouthpiece (it has to be the problem)
5. The new horn (the new mouthpiece didn't fix things)
6. Realization (There really is no shortcut to this process, I better get some lessons)

Those three are the things I've seen over and over on the trumpet forums over the years with comeback players. It would seem that they forgot that it took them literally years as a kid to get to a level of solid proficiency, but they think that somehow they can circumvent the time with adult level knowledge, focus and discipline. Those help some, but the truth is that it doesn't come back quickly, just like it didn't develop quickly the first time around.

Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept.
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep reading posts with recurring themes of a true love of music and of perseverance.

Illustrating those was an experience I had when visiting a New Horizons Band. When they were packing up to leave, I noticed one of the alto players hooking herself back up to an oxygen tank. Touching and inspiring.
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thickeyjr
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Thank you all! Reply with quote

I really appreciate all the feedback. That is one of the reasons that I like this forum. People are more than willing to help out and share their thoughts. I will take all the advice in and update my plan. More importantly, I am resetting some expectations on what I can expect on progress. Thanks again!
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ebolton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:


Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept.


Hey, Patrick, as a 'comeback player' I'm with you. I was never good to start with. Now I'm approaching retirement age, during the pandemic lockdowns trumpet was one of the things I've come back to. I don't think I'll ever be playing for money. I don't think I want to. I could see joining a community band of some type. I did sit in one back in my youth because there was a hot trombonist I was after. Since I've started playing again, I looked her up- she's now a music professor somewhere. She looks about as old as me. That isn't what I remember.

But now I'm in it because I love to pursue excellence. I like the feeling when I can play something with no mistakes. When I get the timing right and the fingering right and I hit the right note, it's really satisfying. More so than I can remember from when I was a kid. It probably comes from making tons and tons of mistakes in other elements of life since then.

Anyway, when I see your posts and replies, I pay attention. I guess I'm a fanboy of yours. Your opinions generally align with mine, and I appreciate what you say.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate that - not everyone feels that way about things I post!

I've been called a pessimist in the past by certain people who always want to look through the rose colored glasses. I've never thought about it like that - I'm from the rural Midwest and grew up in a family that was a farm family until we sold it when I was 2 - people like that tend to be pragmatic people. My parents were definitely that way and I'd like to think that some of it rubbed off.

In any case, I've always tried to take a practical approach to my playing - I think far too often many aspiring players get caught up in a lot of hype, or spin their wheels searching for a tip, trick, hack, mouthpiece, etc, when most often the best tip or trick would be to put in some focused time in the practice room trying to eradicate deficiencies, and working to fine tune the rest. (see my signature line below)

With that said, you should take anything I say with a grain of salt - I'm a solid enough player - have managed to be able to be a paid player for a long time, but I've never been good enough to break into top-tier things. There are players here on the board who are MUCH better than I am, and with much better resumes to prove it. I like to try to help where feel I can though.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
[

Something else to consider is that not everyone gets good at this. I know people who have been at this for literally decades - they work at it, and yet they still can't seem to manage to ascend past a certain level of mediocrity, and that's something a comebacker needs to be prepared to accept.


That's the thing about being in a community band - there is a place for solid (but average i.e. mediocre ) players who will never be the "stars" but who learn their parts and show up on time with their music - because they love being part of something whose output is greater than the sum of it's parts.

I don't know that my "last conscious thoughts will be of the 'band', and the 'band', and the 'band'"- but they might be.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All my memories of how good I was were a major impediment to coming back after a 20-year layoff. All my worst old habits returned very quickly, and some new ones developed, in the effort to push myself too hard, too fast.

As I have said many times, the best thing I ever did was to find a good teacher. The worst thing I did was to wait too long. Should have done it on day one, or maybe -1.

FWIWFM - Don
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