Help Choosing a Bach C

oneillmobile · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: Help Choosing a Bach C

Hello! I had the pleasure of playing every C Trumpet at J. Landress in NYC today, and unfortunately didn't leave with a horn. I was close to pulling the trigger on two, but couldn't decide and wanted to do a little more research.
They had a Larson, a Yamaha 6445, and a Bach 229/25R that I didn't much care for. I also played a 229/25H Bach that I didn't bond with.
The three that stuck out to me were the B&S Metropolitan, a 2014 Bach Philly 229, and a 1972 Bach 239/25C. I ended up eliminating the B&S due to cost and not liking the sound quite as much as the Bachs.
My first favorite was the '72 239, which had the best sound, especially when pushed. It definitely put the biggest smile on my face. The only issue was I had trouble keeping it in tune, and found that while I liked the sound at a mezzo forte and above, I had trouble backing off and playing something quieter. I also have some anxiety about buying a vintage horn vs. a newer one in terms of long term reliability.
The Philadelphia C was easier to play in tune, more comfortable at low volumes, and a much newer instrument. I miss some of the sound of the 239, but felt like it was a more practical option.
I also wonder if the tuning issues on the 239 were more me or the horn. I haven't played C in a long time, and don't have great pitch to start with on Bb.
My questions are: are there other horns I should check out that might combine the strengths of these horns? and is there something special about the "corporation" era Bachs compared to contemporary ones? Finally, does anyone have experience with the Bach "Artisan" C trumpet? I am exclusively looking at the used market, and an Artisan can be had for only a few hundred more.

ProAm · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 949

I got a Bach 239/25 C back in 1979. I liked it better than the 229/25H versions I compared with it. I thought it was OK. Later, I swapped the leadpipe for a Blackburn 19-350 with the rounded tuning slide. It was my favorite horn to play after that.

For me, the Bach 239 w. the Blackburn leadpipe was great.

I also had a chance to play a Bach Chicago one time and was impressed with it. The new 25 C pipe on those (I think they call it a 25CC) is an improvement, in my opinion. I think that's the pipe on the Philly with the difference between the Chicago and Philly being the Chicago has a lightweight 229 bell and the Philly a standard weight 229.

Crazy Finn · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:44 pm Post subject:

I'm not a big C trumpet guy or a Bach guy, however, I'll put a couple cents in as far as overall testing.

Things that I would buy into from testing: Sound, response, flexibility, stability, maybe intonation - depending, and a general feel for the horn.

These are things that you can get a sense from pretty quickly and aren't too hampered by a lack of familiarity as much as others.

Things that would turn me off during testing that I'd put stock in: stuffiness, how easy the upper register feels (maybe part of stuffiness), some really problematic notes in terms of response or intonation, general fairly prominent intonation issues, no resonance in the sound, etc.

There are things that really only come with familiarity with a horn, like getting a good handle on dynamic control or for horns that aren't extremely hard slotting, maybe accuracy - in my opinion.
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trickg · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject:

Could it be that you're overthinking it?

A few questions:

1. How good are you?
2. Where/how will you be using this C
3. What are your expectations out of the horn?

The fact that you've created this thread gives me an idea about question 1. Question 2 is completely in the air.

Question 3 - that's really the crux of the matter. Just what do you expect out of it - it certainly isn't going to play itself.

C trumpets have different intonation issues than Bb trumpets have. For that matter, every single trumpet anyone ever buys is going to have at least a couple of minor quirks. For those, the player overcomes them by working with the horn, learning what those quirks are and how to handle them, then developing consistency in the practice room.

I just don't overthink this kind of thing anymore. I just recently bought a C trumpet that I'm actively using in an orchestra. I paid a pittance for it comparatively, and I bought it sight unseen - I ordered it online. Of course I have my friend Trent Austin who vouched for it, but it's a humble Brasspire Unicorn C trumpet in silver plate.

Dunno - maybe I'm over-simplifying things, but this horn seems to do just fine. Sure, it has a quirk or two, but it's a C trumpet - I expected that. Otherwise, it sounds fine with the section where I'm using it - it fits right in.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

chef8489 · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject:

I'll reply with my comment from your reddit post. It's been a while since I needed a c trumpet, but here was my experience.
I really like a 239 with a 7r pipe., but that's me. I just don't like the sound or feel of the 229 or the 25 pipes. To me the 7r has better slotting and intonation and a bit less stuffy and I just love the sound of the 239 bell. Really reminds me of how the 72 bell sounds on the Bb. A 238 would be a bit darker but to me project a bit less and spread a bit more, but I like the sound of the 38 bell still.
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oneillmobile · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:23 pm Post subject:

oneillmobile · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject:

david johnson · Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:31 pm Post subject:

I used a 239 for years and really enjoyed it.

Dayton · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:51 am Post subject:

Generally: Trying C trumpet when you haven't played C trumpets in a while is challenging because the C trumpet (typically) has a different feel to it. Intonation is different as well. It's hard to know what right is. I'd be inclined to lean toward a relatively "standard" set up from a popular brand (which you could easily sell), give yourself time to acclimatize to the C trumpet, and then look around in another year or to see if there is a better fit for you.

ProAm · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 949

Andy Cooper · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:01 am Post subject:

nltrumpet · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject:

Though I play a Yamaha NY Gen II for my C, I’ve always had a soft spot for the Bach Philadelphia C trumpets!

Andy Del · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:08 am Post subject:

If you don’t feel comfortable with those instruments , do not buy any of them. That’s easy.

Finding a C you like takes times time and a lot of patience. Of all my 6 C’s there’s only 1 I’m not happy with and it’s up for sale. The rest I love playing.

A colleague recently had his much altered 229/7R modified to a 238/7R with a hidden reverse and normal finger hook. It was reassembled without stress and the bell tail and ports on the valve casing opened up, straightened, rounded, etc. The result was a pretty garbage horn is now stunning.

So his other, very very good 229/25H - which I actually considered buying (yes!) now feels bland, stuffy and nasal. This has been a 20 year journey for him to find a good C…

Patience, grasshopper.

Cheers

Andy
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