Selmer/BAch Bundy equivalent in today's pro horns

[jairo_saade]

Hi all,

I have been thinking about the nostalgia I feel when I remember my glorious school days when I played my Bundy trumpet, which I still have but is in very bad shape including the valves very worn out.

I would like to get something as close as possible but I have absolutely no idea about which of the modern pro trumpets would be similar in specs. For what I can tell it is ML bore, all brass except for the receiver, the bell braces and the spit levers which are in nickel silver.

Your input is very much appreciated, not only regarding specs but also on possible makers, custom makers? etc.

regards.

Joe
_________________
Joe S

[Andy Cooper]

I have an old Bach catalog that says the student trumpets had a 37 style bell ,459 valve bore, and a #6 leadpipe. The #6 is a little tighter than the usual #25 pipe.

Probably a lighter weight horn ...
As far as stock offerings, you might look at a LT Bach ML 180 37* 25 leadpipe for starters , Bobby Shew , Getzen 3001 Artist, small bore Schilke's.

If you find something that responds the way you want it to but is too open you can always change mouthpiece backbores or order a smaller tuning slide for your trumpet.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Quite honestly, there is nothing in production today that plays like and old high-quality student horn. This is both a good and a bad thing. The characteristics of those old Bundy, Ambassador, Collegiate and Cleveland horns derive from a number of factors:
- Looser valve fit - creates resistance to over-blow against for those learning control.
- Mass - these things are tanks. That dampens high frequencies and saps more energy from what the player puts into the horn for much the same benefit as the prior item. This also forces good support - or the tone just stops.
- Heavy gauge bells - this makes notes require more energy to speak, but also reduces all of the unintended speech beginners are prone to.
- Rigid centering - this takes a lot of responsibility for intonation away from players not yet ready for it - of course, as I will note next, that has its issue
- Cost-cutting designs that sacrifice some in terms of tone and intonation
- Simple tapers - which do not provide as variable a feedback to the player

So why don't they build them like this anymore? Well, modern manufacturing has made it possible to spend even less to build horns that are more responsive (easier to play - right or wrongly) because they are lighter and tighter. Some have heavier bells, some are pretty unstable in a beginners hands because the bell, like all of the horn, has so little inertia. Intonation on these modern student horns is typically as bad or worse, but they are not rigidly centering like the old ones, so the player can learn to force them into tune - or get really tired.

You need to figure out what the feel is that you are looking for, what the feedback is that you are looking for, and what the level of control vs security you are seeking is. Those detail can then steer you to something you may like - try a lot of horns & see what appeals to you.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[kehaulani]

xxx
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[jairo_saade]

Hi,

The specs of the bundy mentioned before help a lot in the analysis. So far I think the following: The material itself (all brass with little nickel silver) is not the factor because two other horns that are mainly brass but play very different. Weight is also not the factor on its own because the horn I feel most similar to the bundy is a Taylor chicago Lite 46 ML bore and lighter horns such as a lawler C7 are very different.

the variables to me are tight leadpipe, not so big bell in a rather compact taper, the medium large bore, and to a lesser degree the weight and the material.

Budget wise I am trying to keep the project under 2.5 K including possibly parting with my cool step Bore Lawler C7.

Regards.
Joe
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Joe S

[James Becker]

Ron wrote: Quite honestly, there is nothing in production today that plays like and old high-quality student horn. This is both a good and a bad thing. The characteristics of those old Bundy, Ambassador, Collegiate and Cleveland horns...

Sadly the equivalent to Bundy, Bach TR300 built in Eastlake, Ohio did not survive. However, the Eastlake King 601 is still in production and compares favorably to it's Cleveland predecessors. The "Step up" King Silver Flair is a very good instrument and affordable.

Though the Getzen 390 was discontinued, the Getzen 490 has same chassis as the 390 but with a goldbrass bell, It's an excellent student model.

All the above are made in USA, if that matters to you.

My two cents.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

[cheiden]

I owned and loved my Bundy when I was in junior high school. I sold it soon out of high school. Many years later I felt the need to ditch my pro horn and return to a student horn (long story) and start over. I rented a Yamaha 2000-series. I can't tell you that it's the same but my experience with it was similar as with the Bundy.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart