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Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz?



 
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Kaelos
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Hoping to purchase a Strad 37 with a #25 leadpipe for mainly lead jazz playing on my private teacher's recommendation, thoughts? And any recommendations for other horns that could fit that role in a similar price range used?
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should get scores of responses.

I really like the LR Strads, but not everyone does. Options? Hundreds, literally. CarolBrass puts out a CRT-7770 is a great horn; light, bright and a joy to play. Another good offering by CarolBrass is there CTR-5000L YST. Both models have a bell rather similar to the Strad 37, but a slightly larger flare (5 inches).
A good Benge would be a nice choice as well.

Really, the lighter the bell, potentially the easier, brighter lead tone you'll get.

Enjoy the many options that others will offer as well.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A BIG consideration is whether the LR180S37 is an 'additional horn' specifically for jazz (or other specific situations), or whether it is intended to be your only pro-level horn, and ALSO useful for jazz.

Are you looking for a horn that is 'best suited' for jazz, or a good all-around horn that can be used for jazz, and many other types of playing.

My view is that for most people, it's best to have a good quality instrument that can be used in many different settings - jazz, pop, concert, small group, etc.

I suggest that you don't worry about getting a 'jazz horn', just get a 'good horn' that can be used successfully in many settings. And I'm guessing your teacher has a similar view.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of your suggestion, Jay, does that mean that you do not think a Bach LR180S37 is a "Goldilocks" horn?
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Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Because of your suggestion, Jay, does that men that you do not think a Bach LR180S37 is a "Goldilocks" horn?

---------------------
Not at all!
My guess is that the teacher is also thinking about 'Goldilocks'.

I know little about LR180S37, but I have the idea that they are viewed as good general-purpose instruments.

Edit: perhaps I am not understanding your wording regarding
'do you not think xxx is ...'
as opposed to my understanding of those words to mean -
do you think xxx is not ...
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.


Last edited by JayKosta on Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Kaelos wrote:
Hoping to purchase a Strad 37 with a #25 leadpipe for mainly lead jazz playing on my private teacher's recommendation


If you have the capebilities and the chops to play lead a Bach 180-37 can be a very good instrument. As is the Getzen Eterna (ever heard of Doc Severinsen?), as is the Yamaha Bobby Shew 'Z' trumpet, or the Calicchio 1S2(ever heard of Chuck Findly?) or maybe Conn Connstellation when we think of Maynard Ferguson?

A good lead player can play lead on every trumpet; in the past there where lead players using the Martin Committee! Go figure...

For sure certain horns can help doing the lead duty; not that I can forfill this task but if so I would take a horn with a slow tapered bell (37 style) and a nice resistance to lean at so: Bach 37-180, Bach 25-180 LB, Calicchio 1S2 or Getzen Eterna
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an LR180ML37 Strad and have been playing it for thirty years. It's probably the best all-around horn I've ever owned. It works well for lead if you find the right mouthpiece. It's a little tighter up high than my Getzen 700, but when I'm relaxed and blowing right it opens up just fine--a lot more than the standard Bach.

I like the combination of lightweight body and standard weight bell. When I was horn shopping back in the day I A-B'd it with a standard Strad 37. The LR180 has infinitely better response and you still get that great Bach sound, but with a little more sparkle to it. The other thing I noticed was that it had much better intonation than the standard 37 model I tested. It has great projection and works with a lot of different mouthpiece types--lead, orchestral, etc.

It slots well and the reverse leadpipe helps the intonation and makes it a little more free-blowing. I had been playing a .470 bore CG Selmer before I switched to the Bach. The Selmer was a great horn but I had a hard time being heard in a big band section even when I was blowing my brains out because the sound wasn't directional enough. Switching to the LR180 solved the problem and allowed me to play more efficiently.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
A good lead player can play lead on every trumpet; in the past there where lead players using the Martin Committee! Go figure...


Manuel, I noticed that you made a similar comment in the thread Opinions on buying a custom horn online, namely, "About the Puje in a commercial situation, in the 50's there where trumpet players that did lead on a Martin Committee, go figure!"

I assume you made these comments because you view the Committee as strictly a dark, smoky small combo jazz horn that would be inappropriate to use as a 'lead' horn.

Just FYI, back in the 50's the Martin company was promoting the Committee not for its tone, but for its range. For example, one Martin Committee ad from the 50's states, "It's High Time you try a Martin! The trumpet that's acoustically designed to play highs with less effort . . .". Another says, "Martin . . . the extra range trumpet!" A third reads, "Rangemaker! It takes talent to play highs easily, consistently . . . but a great deal depends upon your horn. Highs become a normal part of your playing range with a Martin because the horn is specially designed for easy response in the upper register." In all cases, the horn depicted is the Committee, and the artists cited are all well-known Committee players (Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Chet Baker, etc.). You can find original images of these ads by doing a Yahoo or Google search for "Martin Committee the rangemaker ad". (Amusingly, that search also turned up a Martin Committee II saxophone ad featuring an endorsement by Norman Bates! It was not the Norman Bates from Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho, however.)

Based on the Martin company's view of its own product, maybe it's not so inappropriate that some lead players used a Martin Committee.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
Manuel de los Campos wrote:
A good lead player can play lead on every trumpet; in the past there where lead players using the Martin Committee! Go figure...


Based on the Martin company's view of its own product, maybe it's not so inappropriate that some lead players used a Martin Committee.


Bill Chase was one, also SF Bay lead John Coppola
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:


Manuel, I noticed that you made a similar comment in the thread Opinions on buying a custom horn online, namely, "About the Puje in a commercial situation, in the 50's there where trumpet players that did lead on a Martin Committee, go figure!"

I assume you made these comments because you view the Committee as strictly a dark, smoky small combo jazz horn that would be inappropriate to use as a 'lead' horn.

Just FYI, back in the 50's the Martin company was promoting the Committee not for its tone, but for its range. For example, one Martin Committee ad from the 50's states, "It's High Time you try a Martin! The trumpet that's acoustically designed to play highs with less effort . . .". Another says, "Martin . . . the extra range trumpet!"


Haha, yeah man, you know, EVERY trumpet ad. is about how easy the upper register is, how great the response, how nice the playing characteristics etc. etc. otherwise they cannot sell the instrument but in the end we trumpet players see the reality because WE have to play them and so the Committee we see strictly as a dark smoky small combo jazz horn, the Bach 180 (190) -37 as a 'very versatilliy' horn, any Yamaha as a very consistant made instrument etc. etc.
But as I said, when you are gifted you can play on every trumpet lead. Jelle Schouten, to me the greatest lead player in The Netherlands I spoke a few years ago during the break in a concert with The New Cool Collective Big Band. I asked him about his equipment. He replied: Stock Bach 180-37 with a drilled out stock Bach 3c mouthpiece. Go figure!
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
. . . but in the end we trumpet players see the reality because WE have to play them and so the Committee we see strictly as a dark smoky small combo jazz horn . . .


Long story short, I guess I don't agree with you that the Committee is strictly a dark smoky small combo jazz horn, or that "we trumpet players" all see it that way. I cited the Martin ads because I felt that they reflected Martin's actual design intent for the horn, not just marketing hype. They were selling the Committee as a 'high range' horn because they designed it to excel in that role (otherwise, why not publish ads stressing its rich tonal quality and expressiveness?), from which I in turn infer that it is a reasonable 'lead' horn, rather than an improbable one that can only be wrestled into serving in that capacity by gifted players. Also, I own one.

Go figure.
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bnbechtel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Bach Strad LR180S37 for lead jazz? Reply with quote

Kaelos wrote:
Hoping to purchase a Strad 37 with a #25 leadpipe for mainly lead jazz playing on my private teacher's recommendation, thoughts? And any recommendations for other horns that could fit that role in a similar price range used?


I accidentally bought one of these around 1996, the WWBW guy was trying to upsell me as a high schooler on the phone, saying that it would make my upper register easier. My teacher was upset that I didn't get the standard model. She was primarily interested in classical tone and performance (and she taught a couple of high school national champions, just I didn't make it to that level, not for technique but for tone) and I found that it made my upper register sound kind of strident. I wasn't a lead player, though -- my teacher wasn't interested in developing that kind of playing. Strangely, she insisted that I play on a Schilke 12, which is a commercial mouthpiece, and was disappointed in my tone with this setup. All of this to say: it depends on the teacher; mine was not happy with my acquisition of a reverse leadpipe 37. It's not just the reverse leadpipe, it's the lightweight body, I think, which I guess makes the horn more responsive but might make it less suited to classical tone, unless you have great tone (probably better than mine was.) It's lightweight body, standard weight bell, right? It might be good for screaming, but I can't scream (yet.)
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to know why a "Schilke 12, . . is a commercial mouthpiece". I played an 11 on classical-oriented music for years.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always love the responses on the forum which in essence say "I don't have much (or on occasion, any) experience with the horn or situation you are asking about, but here is my opinion anyway", even if it doesn't directly address the original question. The OP asked specifically about using a Bach 37 with a 25 leadpipe for playing lead. He or she was not asking for an all around jazz horn, not asking for an all purpose horn, or "Goldilocks horn", whatever that is suppose to be.

As a long time lead player who also owns and plays Bachs on a regular basis, here is my response to the OP. Bachs are great all around horns. I have been playing them for many years. I currently use a large bore 25 on a regular basis. However, with one exception (see below),they are generally not my first choice as a designated lead horn, especially the 37. My first choice for playing lead is a Schilke B2 or B3. Other makes that I actually own or have played that I would consider good choices for lead would include a Bach Commercial, Getzen Eterna, Benge, or other Schilke models besides the B2 or B3. Several Carol Brass models have been suggested here for playing lead. I would certainly check them out. While I am not a huge Yamaha fan, I would also check out the Shew models as well as the Bergeron models.

I am sure that there will be other suggestions for the OP. Hopefully they will directly address his or her original question.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
I always love the responses on the forum which in essence say "I don't have much (or on occasion, any) experience with the horn or situation you are asking about, but here is my opinion anyway", even if it doesn't directly address the original question.

Thing with trumpets is...it's just so much fun talking about them, and I guess most of us just wanna be part o the conversation.

And you never know when an off-hand remark can be useful.
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trumpetchops
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach is a good trumpet.
At that level of instrument, the difference in horns will be more about you (or a fit with your body), than the trumpet.
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improver
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

37 is effective for everything
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