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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9008
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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 Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Noodly wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | "Lead with the mind and the body will follow". |
Timothy Gallwey's "Inner Game of Tennis" as applied to trumpet playing.. |
I learned it through the Martial Arts and the philosophy is was what the "Inner Game . ." series got this maxim from. I can.t speak specifically to other traditions, but it is integral to Japanese Bushido going back hundreds of years.
| Billy B wrote: | | I have had no problem with students from beginners through advanced players once they believe in themselves. It's how we learn to talk. Organic and natural. |
Billy, this is my guiding philosophy but I have to go along with other dissenters pointing out that there's more than just "organic and natural".
Even though I had instruction from excellent teachers like John Haynie, no one could crack the code to my impasse and I had to quit playing for several months to let my muscles deteriorate before rebuilding.The Music Man's "Think" method didn't work.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Billy B
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Noodly wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | "Lead with the mind and the body will follow". |
Timothy Gallwey's "Inner Game of Tennis" as applied to trumpet playing.. |
I learned it through the Martial Arts and the philosophy is was what the "Inner Game . ." series got this maxim from. I can.t speak specifically to other traditions, but it is integral to Japanese Bushido going back hundreds of years.
| Billy B wrote: | | I have had no problem with students from beginners through advanced players once they believe in themselves. It's how we learn to talk. Organic and natural. |
Billy, this is my guiding philosophy but I have to go along with other dissenters pointing out that there's more than just "organic and natural".
Even though I had instruction from excellent teachers like John Haynie, no one could crack the code to my impasse and I had to quit playing for several months to let my muscles deteriorate before rebuilding.The Music Man's "Think" method didn't work. |
Whatever works for you do it.
Your music man comment is not only ignorant but immature.
Goodbye.
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Bill Bergren |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9008
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | Your music man comment is not only ignorant but immature. |
It was satire, man. Kind'a short on a sense of humour this evening? Guess it didn't come across as intended.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve A wrote: | | Billy B wrote: |
I can change your embouchure simply by playing a certain sound and having you copy with no mention of set, feel, etc. |
I can see that this approach could work when people already had some experience of healthy playing but had gotten lost, or for a fairly small change when they didn't have serious issues, but I have a hard time believing that any serious and dedicated student could always listen and copy their way out of any problem, regardless of how serious the problems might be, or if they had ever played any other way. Is this really what you're suggesting? |
I can see how it could work, if the method works somewhat like this:
Very broadly speaking, most trumpet players play in roughly the same way, with certain combinations of muscle activity leading to a certain sound. If a student is copying a sound, the only way they'll be able to math that sound is by using the same combination of muscles that the teacher is. Thus, rather than micro-managing the individual muscles, the teacher manipulates them by making the student play a certain way. That of course requires a great deal of knowledge (not to mention a great ear) about not only the right ways to play, but also of many of the ways people play wrongly. Given time and patience, depending on the student's ability to mimic the sound, this would eventually lead them to the correct setup (note: it's probably not an instant change for most). And I can see how it wouldn't work on players that have a non-standard way of playing (say, Dizzy Gillespie).
Not sure if that's how it works though, just a guess on my part.
One of my former teachers also used sound to analyze technique, but reversed: she tried to mimic the sound of her students in order to analyze where the flaws in their playing were, to better understand what they should do differently and which aspects of their technique should be changed. |
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Steve A
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1808
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: |
I already answered all these questions. If you don't want to believe it that's fine with me. Good luck. |
Okay, this looks like an "agree to disagree" moment. Thanks for your thoughts.  |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Steve A wrote: | | ... But what would you do with someone who'd already been playing for a while and, despite hard and methodical work, had technical issues, ... |
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My understanding is that the teacher must know the fundamentals of playing, must be skillful at teaching students of various types, and needs to be able to find 'the way' to teach the particular student.
And it's very likely that a good teacher knows many different ways to successfully teach - and chooses the method that works.
| Billy B wrote: | | The teacher must teach them how. |
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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