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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:14 am Post subject: Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz - Bach 3C |
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A trivial question! Do you prefer the modern Bach 3C or the Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz? And why? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9027 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: |
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(To quote Emily Litella, "never mind") _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I prefer Bobby Shew Jazz but my favorite in that range is ACB 3C.
Bobby Shew Jazz just worked better for me than Bach. Also it's a little bit cheaper so I recommend it to students. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I've played both. As I recall the Shew Jazz has a similar rim size and feel as a smaller vintage Bach 3C, pretty close that that of the Yamaha 14B4. This is the rim size/shape I've typically favored for all but the picc. The newer Bach 3Cs feel a good bit larger more like a Yamaha 15C4 or 16C4.
I like the tone of both the Bach 3C or the Shew Jazz but don't favor it over the tone I get with a Bach 1.5C underpart. But it's been a while since I've checked. I might have to run that experiment again. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Last edited by cheiden on Mon May 15, 2023 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yamaha Shew Jazz over the current Bach 3C.
Blessing 3C over the current Bach 3C.
My old 90's version of the Bach 3C that I haven't played for several years about equal to the Shew Jazz or Blessing 3C.
Edit:
There's nothing inherently "wrong" with the current Bach 3C, but it's not the same as the 3C I played on for years. The Blessing and Shew Jazz are closer. Thus, I prefer them. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Last edited by Crazy Finn on Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Shew Jazz - for me, better sound and easier in the upper register. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Why is the Bach 3C infinitely more used than the yamaha bobby shew jazz? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9027 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Been around longer? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Been around longer? |
Probable |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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annvill wrote: | Why is the Bach 3C infinitely more used than the yamaha bobby shew jazz? | The most well-known and common mouthpieces in the world are probably all BACH: 7C 3C 1.5C and 1.25C at least in my life experience. When I was in high school and college I didn't see a lot of Yamaha mouthpieces, or other brands, compared to Bach. Monette was kind of common and easy to spot in college. I lived in Colorado and California, there are definitely regional differences. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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annvill wrote: | Why is the Bach 3C infinitely more used than the yamaha bobby shew jazz? |
Why is Ford more well known than Hyundai?
There's nothing wrong with the Bach 3C, it's been a favorite of players for decades longer than Yamaha has made brass instruments, let alone the Shew Jazz mouthpiece.
I'm a trumpet guy myself and I didn't even know about the Shew Jazz mouthpiece for a long, long time. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't it seem to you that the Bach 3C is more reactive, faster in reaction?
The Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz most muffled ? |
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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:06 am Post subject: |
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After some time it seems to me that the Bach 3C is even more brilliant |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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annvill wrote: | After some time it seems to me that the Bach 3C is even more brilliant |
I've been playing Bach 3C's (80's, 90's, & ought x's) as my main 'go to' mp for thirty years but I've never heard (no pun intended) them referred to as brilliant, interesting.
I know words are never adequate in explaining sound, feel, etc. ...however brilliant is not an adjective I'd associate with a Bach 3C of any vintage. |
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annvill Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not saying that the Bach 3C is brilliant, but the Yamaha seems darker to me, it sizzles less. |
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John Mock Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 336 Location: near Harrisburg, PA
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Bach mouthpieces are notoriously different through the years. Their cup dimensions change with time and can vary a good bit. I never had good luck with Bach mouthpieces and always wanted something with a slightly larger throat and free blowing or different backbore.
I switched to the Yamaha Shew Jazz mouthpiece years ago, and was very happy with the improved (for me) brilliance and freer blowing feel.
Perhaps you got a better 3C than most, but...not all are equal. The Shew Jazz mouthpieces have been better for me. My son in 9th grade plays on a Shew Jazz and gets a good sound with it.
I personally gravitated from the Shew Jazz to the Marcinkiewicz Shew 2 (deepest one) and then to the GR Wayne Bergeron Studio Model. But for me, those two mouthpieces are "close enough" to the Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz that I can pick one up and play on it and it feels and sounds ok for me. For me all of them are better than a Bach 3C or a Bach 3C that has been drilled out one throat size.
It's not just the diameter at various points, or the taper of the backbore. GR has done a bunch of studies regarding the alpha angle (break at inside edge) and the breaks at other points in the mouthpiece. Their mouthpieces are not cheap but appear to be phenomenal.
Many folks will just drill out the throat of a mouthpiece, but in doing so that can create other problems and messes up the angle at the internal cup break point, so GR does NOT recommend taking a stock any mouthpiece and drilling it out.
I have a friend, a weekend pro player, who was always trying mouthpieces. I've tried out plenty of them before settling on what I use now. Now I can notice a difference with small changes in mouthpiece. For instance, the WB Lead mouthpiece for me is not nearly as good as the WB Studio. However, I will never be a "lead" player but more of a lower section player, so that makes sense.
My day job is engineering; apologies if this is too technical.
John _________________ Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces |
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Dave_3 Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 64 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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To me, it seems like the Shew Jazz mouthpiece has a slightly shallower cup than the Bach 3C, which seems to have a slightly shallower cup than the Curry 3C. And I find hitting notes above the staff easier on the Shew Jazz mouthpiece, then with either of the other two.
In the link below (on the lower left), Bobby Shew is quoted as saying the Yamaha Shew Jazz mouthpiece is "close" to a Bach 3D.
https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmbobbyshew/index.asp
I also have the Kelly-Shew mouthpiece, and it does indeed sound warmer, to me. |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1099 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: Shew |
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Curious about the backbore for the Yamaha Shew Jazz. I've read varying descriptions: some say it's more open, others have described it is narrower. _________________ Brent |
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Mark Bradley Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 1149 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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As the previous poster mentions, the Kelly Shew signature mouthpiece never seems to get talked about much. Maybe for good reason, but I had one for a while and liked it.
https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmbobbyshew/index.asp
Says Bobby, "This mouthpiece is a great copy of my Yamaha Jazz piece which is "close" to a Bach 3D with a much more responsive backbore, better for jazz playing. I play KELLY because it feels quite a bit more comfortable on my chops, softer to the touch , and I know that I get a much warmer sound on it than the brass version. In addition, I love never having to really "warm it up" before starting to buzz or play!" _________________ Bach 180S-25/ Reeves 43C
Blessing 1580
Bach 181SML cornet/ Laskey 60SB
Yamaha 8315G flugel/ Reeves 42F |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2023 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I sometimes use the Kelly Shew Jazz. In addition to sounding and responding completely different since it is plastic, it is shorter than the Yamaha piece, so I assume the backbore is also different.
I am also curious about how the backbore of the Shew Jazz is different from a Bach 3C. It is interesting how some people say the Shew is brighter, darker, more open, tighter, more free blowing, more stuffy, etc. Very conflicting opinions. I personally love the Shew Jazz, and the rim feels very natural when it's on my face. For me, it makes playing feel easier than a 3C. |
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