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Tonguing



 
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chief757
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Joined: 22 Oct 2021
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:41 am    Post subject: Tonguing Reply with quote

So not too long ago I made a post talking about improving. I recieved some well feedback and would like to ask another thing; What exercises would benefit me the most on tonguing? I know there are thousands and thousands of videos on the subject, and it's really stupid to ask this here, but I want to know what works for YOU. Also, I've heard of something called double-tonguing. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, but isn't that where you use the middle of your tongue to articulate instead of the tip? If so, it seems difficult and I don't know how that would be faster. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Thanks
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean this condesceningly, but if you don't know what double tonguing is, maybe you still need to concentrate more on your single tonguing first.

At any rate, a simple internet search tells you what you want to know. It's enabling you to play faster tongued passages with, instead of single tongue positions, saying Doo-goo-doo-goo-doo.

My biggest revelation on improving tonguing, which can be applied to all facets of it is, learn it slower so you can play it faster.

In other words, don't keep working on something at a level that you can keep making mistakes on. Slow it down and develop it error free. Doing this, slowing it down, will actually help you to learn it faster.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, I've heard of something called double-tonguing. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, but isn't that where you use the middle of your tongue to articulate instead of the tip?


The most common/traditional way to articulate is to use the tip of your tongue toward your lips. An alternative used by Herbert L. Clarke, his student Claude Gordon and Gordon's students is to use the center of your tongue against the roof of your mouth. That alternative is referred to as k-tongue modified (KTM).

Double tonguing is combining a single-tongued articulation -- "tu" -- with a "ku" articulation gives you double tonguing. You can use either the traditional method of single tonguing or KTM to achieve that.

Quote:
What exercises would benefit me the most on tonguing?


As for exercises, Peter Bond of the Metropolitan Opera has a terrific exercise that you can find on Dr. Bryan Appleby-Wineberg's website along with an explanation from Bond (scroll to the bottom of the page):

https://rowantrumpetprof.com/2014/03/03/articulation-routine-from-peter-bond/

Also, this is exactly the kind of thing a good teacher can help you with. I urge you to take lessons if at all possible.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Articulation is one of those things that brings to mind the story that I heard at a percussion clinic, where the clinician asked his instructor when he was first in college how to improve his drum roll. His instructor said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, ever day."

Translation - there's no tip or trick. The best thing you can do is to get in the practice room and work on it. Don't even use exercises - make up your own exercises, but REALLY focus on what's going on between you and the horn. The idea is that you want to gain control over it - make it sharp and hard when needed, or make it smooth and legato/soft when needed, and everything in between.

You will find that in order to articulate quickly and cleanly, you'll need to have a good air flow, so as you work on articulation, it will also improve your air flow and your chops focus.

And as Kehaulani stated, you need to learn slow so that you can go fast - it's more important to gain control and get things clean at a moderate tempo than to try to push too hard too fast to try to do it quickly.
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chief757
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so most of what I read said that a teacher would benefit me the most. I'm working on getting one this weekend. I was going to get one last week but something came up. Does anyone know of any teachers that are near St. Louis missouri? I live about 40 minutes south from there but I prefer to not travel far. Thanks
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chief757 wrote:
Ok, so most of what I read said that a teacher would benefit me the most. I'm working on getting one this weekend. I was going to get one last week but something came up. Does anyone know of any teachers that are near St. Louis missouri? I live about 40 minutes south from there but I prefer to not travel far. Thanks

It depends on the teacher - I had a private instructor at the Armed Forces School of Music who was a stellar player, but for me it was like oil and water - I learned some things about phrasing, but he was certainly no roadmap for helping me to improve my technique.
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Bachatit
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What has worked for me:

1) Clarke Technical Studies-slurred and tongued
2) Gekker Articulation Studies

Two outstanding books!
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarke Technical Studies
Play a different exercise every week or two. Each day you do the exercise use a different tonguing model.
-slur all
-single-tongue all
-slur 2/tongue 2
-double-tongue all
-K-tongue all (Yes really. And yes it sucks, but DO IT anyway)
-triple-tongue all (where it makes sense)

It's a grind but when you get through it you shouldn't have to worry about being able to tongue any way the music requires.

As has been said there are different ways to approach these but I always favor a light tongue to start the note and don't cut off the end of the notes with the tongue.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially until you're advanced in your tonguing, is to keep the air flowing.

Simplistically speaking, don't think of a string of sixteen, 16th notes as sixteen separated tones, rather like it's one long tone separated into smaller units. But don't start/stop on individual noes but one long tone, interrupted.

Keep the air going.
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play that last group of stuff in Arban and Saint Jacome. That will force you to not only tongue better but the same in all ranges.
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Jason Rogers
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject: Tonguing Reply with quote

Play Arban's Carnival of Venice Variation II-- to maintain your triple tongue technique in an enjoyable way! (play everyday!)
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