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$4k+- to spend. Give me suggestions.


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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonprokingdom wrote:
You definitely have an issue with numbers;
Monette Unity pieces cost $415.

You have just refuted your own point. Trolling yourself is a new level, I dig it.


This is rich coming from someone whose first ever TH post earlier this week

1) pretended to have long-time knowledge of the site and the commenting styles on it,

2) claimed to have knowledge of the musical backgrounds of myself and my original interlocutor even though neither of us have any personal details attached to our TH pseudonyms.

Were I a less generous sort, I would think you a sock puppet of that interlocutor. So yeah, quibble over five dollars instead of addressing my actual point; it shows everyone else how unserious you are. Those who resort to straw arguments show only that they have nothing to contribute, and in such manner you have ceded my point. The percentage increase between $190 and $415 over 25 years is still MUCH less than the percentage increase from $974 to $3,500 over that time. Thanks for playing, though.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericmpena wrote:
First, I finally found a video where the sound is near exactly what I’m looking for. The horn is a Coppernicus. Take a listen at 4:50 in the video. The sound with the TA1-CS mouthpiece is in my head what I’m going for. Something that can be bright up top, but mellows out when you come back to the mid or low range.

Any other horns out there with similar characteristics? Something that can be both a little dark and then bright…depending on how you play it?


I mentioned the Coppernicus upthread. My understanding from Trent's videos is that the copper finish is to mask the alloy(s) used in the horn, I suppose so competitors don't immediately copy it.

As for horns with similar characteristics, I believe Trent acknowledges that the Conn long cornets of yore - the 28A, the 10A, etc. - were a big inspiration for Coppernicus.
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ericmpena
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
ericmpena wrote:
First, I finally found a video where the sound is near exactly what I’m looking for. The horn is a Coppernicus. Take a listen at 4:50 in the video. The sound with the TA1-CS mouthpiece is in my head what I’m going for. Something that can be bright up top, but mellows out when you come back to the mid or low range.

Any other horns out there with similar characteristics? Something that can be both a little dark and then bright…depending on how you play it?


I mentioned the Coppernicus upthread. My understanding from Trent's videos is that the copper finish is to mask the alloy(s) used in the horn, I suppose so competitors don't immediately copy it.

As for horns with similar characteristics, I believe Trent acknowledges that the Conn long cornets of yore - the 28A, the 10A, etc. - were a big inspiration for Coppernicus.


That's interesting. While I understand the idea, I'm a fan of seeing the different colors of alloys used.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's at least one clear lacquered Coppernicus out there. From what I remember, the materials were the "standard" for Adams, which includes their bronze/nickel block, sterling silver slug on the bell tail, nickel outer slides, and brass inner slides. I think the regular production bells are gold/red brass, but Trent's personal horn is Sterling Silver I believe.



On another note, with $4k to buy a custom horn, OP should look at Possegger trumpets.


Last edited by Goby on Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericmpena wrote:

First, I finally found a video where the sound is near exactly what I’m looking for. The horn is a Coppernicus. Take a listen at 4:50 in the video. The sound with the TA1-CS mouthpiece is in my head what I’m going for. Something that can be bright up top, but mellows out when you come back to the mid or low range.


So, my take is that you should try some flugel-y mouthpieces on your current set-up for dark. I think mouthpiece makes a huge differences. I have a Bach 5v a Hammond fluffy and they're both deep, conical mouthpieces with large throats. They're a lot of fun to play.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to play mariachi on a Coppernicus with a deep cup mouthpiece. With a lighter trumpet you tend to get brighter and crisper with better flexibility. My guess is that's what you were liking about the 566, but you'd also find it in many of the commercial, polybore, lighter trumpets.
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
There's at least one clear lacquered Coppernicus out there. From what I remember, the materials were the "standard" for Adams, which includes their bronze/nickel block, sterling silver slug on the bell tail, nickel outer slides, and brass inner slides. I think the regular production bells are gold/red brass, but Trent's personal horn is Sterling Silver I believe.



On another note, with $4k to buy a custom horn, OP should look at Possegger trumpets.


To my knowledge there's never been a clear lacquered Coppernicus. There have been clear Adams A4 double Shepherd's models but those are totally different internal tapers and material differences. It's a totally different instrument... I should know
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Wavyv
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: AR Reply with quote

AR Resonance models

There's a horn to try , I don't know how much wallet it requires.
I'd be interested in a non Commercial Trumpet sound like that !
Watch Sergei Nakariakov on Youtube demo then
Then Trent A on Youtube when he play's his,something like a 5.8 inch bell OMG
You should be able to hear the potential journey the instrument could provide.
With a medium or deep V cup you be in the clouds !
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Reply with quote

Wavyv wrote:
AR Resonance models

There's a horn to try , I don't know how much wallet it requires.
I'd be interested in a non Commercial Trumpet sound like that !
Watch Sergei Nakariakov on Youtube demo then
Then Trent A on Youtube when he play's his,something like a 5.8 inch bell OMG
You should be able to hear the potential journey the instrument could provide.
With a medium or deep V cup you be in the clouds !


The listed price for a demo model AR Resonance Romantica at J Landress Brass is $7,500, so I'm guessing in the neighborhood of $8,500 to $9,000 for a new one - or basically the price of an "entry level" Monette. I do not know where the Romantica falls in the AR Resonance trumpet lineup pricewise (or indeed if they have multiple models of horn).
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DickieG64
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schilke B3L

Bach light weight 72 with the 43 lead pipe

Any Scodwell model. He makes great horns

I found a couple of Chicago Benges that play as well as any horns I have ever had. (1942 and 1953)
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DickieG64 wrote:
Schilke B3L

Bach light weight 72 with the 43 lead pipe

Any Scodwell model. He makes great horns

I found a couple of Chicago Benges that play as well as any horns I have ever had. (1942 and 1953)


+1

I also second the posters who recommend the X-13, mine is a terrific instrument, right in your budget, too.
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dewey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DickieG64 wrote:
Schilke B3L

Bach light weight 72 with the 43 lead pipe

Any Scodwell model. He makes great horns

I found a couple of Chicago Benges that play as well as any horns I have ever had. (1942 and 1953)

Hey, I have #3344. It's a fantastic player
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

austincustombrass wrote:
Goby wrote:
There's at least one clear lacquered Coppernicus out there. From what I remember, the materials were the "standard" for Adams, which includes their bronze/nickel block, sterling silver slug on the bell tail, nickel outer slides, and brass inner slides. I think the regular production bells are gold/red brass, but Trent's personal horn is Sterling Silver I believe.



On another note, with $4k to buy a custom horn, OP should look at Possegger trumpets.


To my knowledge there's never been a clear lacquered Coppernicus. There have been clear Adams A4 double Shepherd's models but those are totally different internal tapers and material differences. It's a totally different instrument... I should know




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FCAUn1wq9M&t=202s


not quite clear lacquer, but clear enough to see the different metals
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
austincustombrass wrote:
Goby wrote:
There's at least one clear lacquered Coppernicus out there. From what I remember, the materials were the "standard" for Adams, which includes their bronze/nickel block, sterling silver slug on the bell tail, nickel outer slides, and brass inner slides. I think the regular production bells are gold/red brass, but Trent's personal horn is Sterling Silver I believe.



On another note, with $4k to buy a custom horn, OP should look at Possegger trumpets.


To my knowledge there's never been a clear lacquered Coppernicus. There have been clear Adams A4 double Shepherd's models but those are totally different internal tapers and material differences. It's a totally different instrument... I should know




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FCAUn1wq9M&t=202s


not quite clear lacquer, but clear enough to see the different metals


That is a tinted lacquer so no. You're not correct on your assessment of the materials.

-T
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ericmpena
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trent,

I'm extremely interested in an Adam's A4, but I spoke to Josh and was told that you only have Select models of the A4 in stock. I was hoping to take a trip to the shop, but that doesn't seem smart if you only have one version of an A4 for me to test.

Maybe you can point me in the right direction as far as selections go.

ML or L? I know standard configuration is L bore, but I've heard that the ML bore is already very free blowing. Can you comment on your experience with the playability of both? I believe you favor ML if I remember correctly.

Gold Brass or Red Brass? I prefer the aesthetics of the red brass, but I feel cautioned about choosing that material because I don't want the horn to be overly dark and flugelhorn sounding.

Shepherds Crook: Again, I prefer the aesthetics of the crook, and I like the idea of the bell being closer to me. My concern is that pairing a Shepherds Crook with a Red Brass bell will have such a dark tone that I will be limited in how I can use the horn.

Thank you for any suggestions.
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericmpena wrote:
Trent,

I'm extremely interested in an Adam's A4, but I spoke to Josh and was told that you only have Select models of the A4 in stock. I was hoping to take a trip to the shop, but that doesn't seem smart if you only have one version of an A4 for me to test.

Maybe you can point me in the right direction as far as selections go.

ML or L? I know standard configuration is L bore, but I've heard that the ML bore is already very free blowing. Can you comment on your experience with the playability of both? I believe you favor ML if I remember correctly.

Gold Brass or Red Brass? I prefer the aesthetics of the red brass, but I feel cautioned about choosing that material because I don't want the horn to be overly dark and flugelhorn sounding.

Shepherds Crook: Again, I prefer the aesthetics of the crook, and I like the idea of the bell being closer to me. My concern is that pairing a Shepherds Crook with a Red Brass bell will have such a dark tone that I will be limited in how I can use the horn.

Thank you for any suggestions.


I know you've been talking to Josh who handles all the Adams orders. ML non-shep, Gold Brass bell would be my configuration... Red Brass is too much for me in terms of the articulation spectrum.

Try not to overthink the choices as they are all a bit subtle in nature... and again Josh is by far the best person to go to with questions as he's set up hundreds of Custom Adams builds with customers!

Best regards,
T
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bebop
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:35 pm    Post subject: $4000 to spend Reply with quote

I just got in an Adams A4 ML Shepherds crook on Friday of last week. I also had a Adams A4 lightweight selected model on trial for a week.

First the A4 lightweight- I like the horn a lot but the sound was a little bright for my ears. I did have the 470 bore which felt a little large for me. So, I decided with help from Josh to get the A4 Shepherds Crook ML bore

A4 ML shepherds Crook- I have only had it a week and really haven't played it that much. But, I found that the sound was a little hard to get my head wrapped around. The bell is a little closer to your ears but it really didn't sound like my other trumpets I've had over the years. I think you have to find the right mouthpiece for this horn. The attacks are a little more veiled than the lightweight A4 lightweight. I have been playing on a Yamaha 8345II which is a great horn. But, the Yamaha sounds small as compared to the A4 SC ML. I'm still trying to get used to that. I wish I could have tried the standard A4 and compared it to this horn. But, I would have to fly the Kansas City to do that. Maybe Adams needs more dealers in the US. Let me know if you have other questions.
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ericmpena
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: $4000 to spend Reply with quote

bebop wrote:
I just got in an Adams A4 ML Shepherds crook on Friday of last week. I also had a Adams A4 lightweight selected model on trial for a week.

First the A4 lightweight- I like the horn a lot but the sound was a little bright for my ears. I did have the 470 bore which felt a little large for me. So, I decided with help from Josh to get the A4 Shepherds Crook ML bore

A4 ML shepherds Crook- I have only had it a week and really haven't played it that much. But, I found that the sound was a little hard to get my head wrapped around. The bell is a little closer to your ears but it really didn't sound like my other trumpets I've had over the years. I think you have to find the right mouthpiece for this horn. The attacks are a little more veiled than the lightweight A4 lightweight. I have been playing on a Yamaha 8345II which is a great horn. But, the Yamaha sounds small as compared to the A4 SC ML. I'm still trying to get used to that. I wish I could have tried the standard A4 and compared it to this horn. But, I would have to fly the Kansas City to do that. Maybe Adams needs more dealers in the US. Let me know if you have other questions.


That's extremely helpful! I was actually just glancing around at the A4LT's, but if you think it's too bright then I'm sure I will also. I prefer darker horns for sure.

So after playing both the ML and L bore, do you think the ML feels plenty capable as far as playability versus the extra effort needed for the .470?
I'm leaning towards ML bore anyways, but I guess the L bore being the standard configuration makes me feel like I might be changing the feeling of the horn in the wrong direction.

How were you able to test a horn for a week? Does ACB offer trial periods on Select model horns?

There are 2 Adam's dealers here in Texas (Dallas and Houston) but I've tried calling each of them with no answer. I doubt they have much of a selection though.
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bebop
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:43 pm    Post subject: $4000 horn Reply with quote

I model I have right now is the A4 SC ML .45 gold brass bell.

ACB will do a trial for I think 14 days. But, remember it takes some time to get the horn try it out for about a week then send it back to get another one. They also list a restock fee on their site. Also Adams doesn't always send what was ordered. I think the Adams A4 SC ML plays open. So, maybe the low c down might not be as huge as the 470 bore but the middle and upper register feel fine to me. I'm playing on ACB MV 3CS top.

I wanted this horn for just small group playing but I think it could fit in well in a section. Maybe not a big band section. The light weight would fit in a big band setting but I just didn't like the sound I got on that horn.

I only real way to choose a new horn is to play and compare the horns side by side. Having someone tell you how it plays or how people thought it plays doesn't really work. I wanted to try the straight A4 but wasn't able to. If your going to try some horns make sure you ask about restock fees.
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ericmpena
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: $4000 horn Reply with quote

bebop wrote:
I model I have right now is the A4 SC ML .45 gold brass bell.

ACB will do a trial for I think 14 days. But, remember it takes some time to get the horn try it out for about a week then send it back to get another one. They also list a restock fee on their site. Also Adams doesn't always send what was ordered. I think the Adams A4 SC ML plays open. So, maybe the low c down might not be as huge as the 470 bore but the middle and upper register feel fine to me. I'm playing on ACB MV 3CS top.

I wanted this horn for just small group playing but I think it could fit in well in a section. Maybe not a big band section. The light weight would fit in a big band setting but I just didn't like the sound I got on that horn.

I only real way to choose a new horn is to play and compare the horns side by side. Having someone tell you how it plays or how people thought it plays doesn't really work. I wanted to try the straight A4 but wasn't able to. If your going to try some horns make sure you ask about restock fees.


I just placed an order for the A4 Select. I’ll put it against a few other horns that I have and hopefully I can figure out if the A4 is going to be a good fit for me.

Thanks for your help!
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ericmpena
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be getting my Adams A4 Select tomorrow, but the Edwards X-13 is looking better and better the more I read about it.

I know that the X-13 and A4 are very different horns, but has anyone played both and can give me their opinion?

I’m kinda thinking that if I’m going to spend close to $4k on a custom Adams order (assuming I like the A4 after trialing the Select model), maybe the X-13 would be the better investment for that price. It seems to be overall a more versatile horn.

Thoughts?
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