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Schilke HD or Soloiste?



 
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random_abstract
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Schilke HD or Soloiste? Reply with quote

Question for those who have experience with the Schilke Soloiste Bb and C trumpets - for a player who's comfortable with (and prefers) the lightweight B/X/HC series Schilkes, would the Soloiste or HD models be closer in feel and flexibility?

I have played the HD C's and Bb's a fair amount, but have not had a chance to try any of the Soloiste models.

Thanks.
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Darth Trumpetus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought the S22HD Bb and C for my son. Great horns, especially the C. We tried an S33HD Bb and it worked better for him, he is now using that Bb.

In the process of trying these, I got an SC4-OT to try and loved it. Played it next to my son's 22HD. They feel very, very close. IMO the Soloiste just has a bit more sparkle in the sound - if that really means anything .

I liked the C so much that I bought the SB4-OT. Really love this horn. Both Soloiste horns have a rich sound when using a larger mpc (Hammond 2Mlx) and will light up using something smaller.

I have also tried several of the MG models in Bb and C. These sound great as well, but are a bit tight for my tastes.

With all of these the intonation is really solid.

The downside is finding the Soloiste models. I see more of the MG available. There are several listed on Reverb. Fleming Instrument Repair in Houston has some and I can vouch for them being a great company to deal with.

Let me know if you have other questions.
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Bb: Schilke SB4-OT
Bb: Monette early-Chicago
C: Schilke SC4-OT
Eb/D: Schilke E3L
Pic: Schilke P5-4
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CurtisCalderon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you have an opinion on the slotting, comparing the HD to the Soloiste? Or even those two compared to say the B6 or B series. I’m wondering which kf the Schilke models have the tightest slots. Thanks for any enlightenment you may be able to share.

Curtis

Edit-I’m mainly curious about the Bb models.

Darth Trumpetus wrote:
I bought the S22HD Bb and C for my son. Great horns, especially the C. We tried an S33HD Bb and it worked better for him, he is now using that Bb.

In the process of trying these, I got an SC4-OT to try and loved it. Played it next to my son's 22HD. They feel very, very close. IMO the Soloiste just has a bit more sparkle in the sound - if that really means anything .

I liked the C so much that I bought the SB4-OT. Really love this horn. Both Soloiste horns have a rich sound when using a larger mpc (Hammond 2Mlx) and will light up using something smaller.

I have also tried several of the MG models in Bb and C. These sound great as well, but are a bit tight for my tastes.

With all of these the intonation is really solid.

The downside is finding the Soloiste models. I see more of the MG available. There are several listed on Reverb. Fleming Instrument Repair in Houston has some and I can vouch for them being a great company to deal with.

Let me know if you have other questions.

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Darth Trumpetus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curtis,

After I looked at your profile on Schilke's website I realized that we had spoken briefly a few years ago at the Schilke booth during TMEA.

For me, the 22HD was pretty flexible with wider targets. The 33HD feels more locked in, and is pretty close to the OT. The MG slotted about the same but just "felt" smaller for me. I initially liked the 22HD a lot, but the OT still has a very free feel but with a bit more security.

The 33HD and the OT have pretty much the same bell, so it makes sense that they feel similar.

If you can't wait until TMEA to try horns, Fleming in Houston has all of these in stock. I don't work for them, just have been a customer for a long time.

Hope this helps.

Nathan
_________________
"Blow in the small end."

Bb: Schilke SB4-OT
Bb: Monette early-Chicago
C: Schilke SC4-OT
Eb/D: Schilke E3L
Pic: Schilke P5-4
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Schilke HD or Soliste Reply with quote

Hello all,
Curtis asked a question about slots. I don't have any experience with the Soliste line, But the slots on the HD or S models, are tighter. I have owned a bunch of the B series, currently have a B2, B3 and S33HD. The S33HD has been my favorite as of late, as it has a little more depth and core than the other two...Though they are all great horns. The B3 and C5L are so comfortable to play, they just need more gas than I have above the staff. That is where the B2 and S33HD come in with the ML bore.
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CurtisCalderon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan,

thanks for the reply. I think I remember your face. There were lots of people through of course! Thanks for the info. Funny enough, I was looking for an S33HD with a Gold Brass bell out of curiosity and saw one at Fleming. I'd really like a tuning bell model, but I may make a trip up there and try it out. Someone was interested in trying out one of my Bach 72's, so I got it out and oiled it up and played on it a bit and I've gotten so used to my Schilke HC-2 that the Bach felt like it had SUPER tight slots. My sound on the Schilke HC-2 is better but I'm a hair sloppier on it. It had me thinking I should find a closer horn to the Bach as far as slots. I believe the S33HD is a little similar and that the #3 bell taper might also be similar to a Bach 72's. Maybe it's meant to be and I'll just buy the one from Fleming or maybe I'll order a tuneable bell from Schilke.

Thanks again and maybe I'll see you this year at TMEA? I was at TBA briefly, but because of Covid I kinda just went in, did my work and left.

Curtis

Darth Trumpetus wrote:
Curtis,

After I looked at your profile on Schilke's website I realized that we had spoken briefly a few years ago at the Schilke booth during TMEA.

For me, the 22HD was pretty flexible with wider targets. The 33HD feels more locked in, and is pretty close to the OT. The MG slotted about the same but just "felt" smaller for me. I initially liked the 22HD a lot, but the OT still has a very free feel but with a bit more security.

The 33HD and the OT have pretty much the same bell, so it makes sense that they feel similar.

If you can't wait until TMEA to try horns, Fleming in Houston has all of these in stock. I don't work for them, just have been a customer for a long time.

Hope this helps.

Nathan

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CurtisCalderon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Schilke HD or Soliste Reply with quote

Christian,

thanks for the input! Before I replied on this forum, it was looking like the S33HD was going to be the main one that would fit for what I was looking for. Your's and Nathan's replies have helped solidify even more. Thanks for giving me your input with your personal experience. I have a B6 with two bells and it has been a fantastic horn. The sound I get out of my HC2 with a Shilke 19 mouthpiece is like no other combination I've played on, just an incredibly beautiful sound. As soon as I put the combination together it was like magic. Playing ballads, it's perfect but because of my lack of discipline with keeping a little stronger embouchure when playing, when I start playing fast things, the open slots are a little too loose for me and you can hear it when I play. I'm hopeful that the S33HD can help. If it doesn't at least it's a good excuse to get another horn...

Curtis


Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
Curtis asked a question about slots. I don't have any experience with the Soliste line, But the slots on the HD or S models, are tighter. I have owned a bunch of the B series, currently have a B2, B3 and S33HD. The S33HD has been my favorite as of late, as it has a little more depth and core than the other two...Though they are all great horns. The B3 and C5L are so comfortable to play, they just need more gas than I have above the staff. That is where the B2 and S33HD come in with the ML bore.

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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:01 pm    Post subject: SchilkeHD or Soliste Reply with quote

Hello all,
Curtis started to mention Bach bells and a Gold brass bell on an S33HD. The Schilke #1,#2 and #3 bells sort of correspond to the Bach 72, 37, 43 and maybe 25. That is my understanding. I looked up the S33HD at Fleming with the gold brass bell. Had to be a special order as the Schilke site states, that the S33HD comes standard with the yellow brass bell. Speaking of gold brass, copper bells are slightly different and a call to Bennett might be in order. Also, I believe that Schilke may use both copper and gold brass bells as the B5 and B6 have the copper #2 bell, and there is a mention of gold brass that has a higher content of copper that the yellow brass bell, which brings a question to mind.
My next observation is that one would need to try a yellow brass bell and a gold brass bell on the same horn body. Tunable bells make it easy, but then there is the sound/feel.resistance factor/timbre that is different with a tunable bell versus a fixed bell. I bought my S33HD, specifically for the YB #3 bell feel and projection. My B2 and B3 both have the #3, which I like, but I found that the B3 actually had a #3 copper bell. The timbre of that bell really is different that the YB version on the B2.
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CurtisCalderon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: SchilkeHD or Soliste Reply with quote

I must have gotten the bells reversed. I thought a #3 was closer to a 72. I'll have to put a call in this week and write stuff down this time. I think you are right. I know I was seeing that the A bell was similar to a 72, B bell a 37 and C bell a 43 but now they go by bell taper number. A probably equals 1?

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
Curtis started to mention Bach bells and a Gold brass bell on an S33HD. The Schilke #1,#2 and #3 bells sort of correspond to the Bach 72, 37, 43 and maybe 25. That is my understanding. I looked up the S33HD at Fleming with the gold brass bell. Had to be a special order as the Schilke site states, that the S33HD comes standard with the yellow brass bell. Speaking of gold brass, copper bells are slightly different and a call to Bennett might be in order. Also, I believe that Schilke may use both copper and gold brass bells as the B5 and B6 have the copper #2 bell, and there is a mention of gold brass that has a higher content of copper that the yellow brass bell, which brings a question to mind.
My next observation is that one would need to try a yellow brass bell and a gold brass bell on the same horn body. Tunable bells make it easy, but then there is the sound/feel.resistance factor/timbre that is different with a tunable bell versus a fixed bell. I bought my S33HD, specifically for the YB #3 bell feel and projection. My B2 and B3 both have the #3, which I like, but I found that the B3 actually had a #3 copper bell. The timbre of that bell really is different that the YB version on the B2.

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Darth Trumpetus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curtis,

I played one of the HC2 in lacquer at TMEA and fell in love with it. Was surprised that you could get a smokey, diffused sound from it and still get some bite when you stepped on the gas. I think it is the most visually beautiful horn made. I want one!

Haven't seen an HD in the tunable bell config, so it would most likely have to be a special order. Schilke is now on an 8-10 month wait - just ordered a G1L-4

Give me a holler if you decide to head to Flemings.

Nathan
_________________
"Blow in the small end."

Bb: Schilke SB4-OT
Bb: Monette early-Chicago
C: Schilke SC4-OT
Eb/D: Schilke E3L
Pic: Schilke P5-4
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random_abstract
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the replies, and you guys are touching on the main issue for me. HC2 is my main horn but I would like something that feels more secure for occasional classical playing. But the HD models I’ve tried can sometimes feel very stiff/inflexible coming off the HC2, so I’ve been wondering if the soloiste models would be a more happy medium… sounds like they might be a tighter blow though?
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Darth Trumpetus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience with the 22HD is that it plays very open. My OT is a bit tighter but not at all stiff. The 22HD is certainly easier to come by.
_________________
"Blow in the small end."

Bb: Schilke SB4-OT
Bb: Monette early-Chicago
C: Schilke SC4-OT
Eb/D: Schilke E3L
Pic: Schilke P5-4
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random_abstract
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are the Soloiste trumpets designed to be more or less flexible than the HD models? It’s not clear from the descriptions but my assumption is that the Soloiste is more geared to solo/chamber work and the HDs are thought of as primarily orchestral instruments, at least the large bore models.
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Darth Trumpetus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they were thinking that way in the design of the Soloiste models. Both Geujon and Takahashi were using HD models before this design, and both use their Soloiste in their orchestra jobs.

I think they were just tweaking the HD design. Both Soloiste models have HD bells. The OT is a #3 HD bell and the MG is a new taper. The lead pipe on the Soloiste models is a traditional one as opposed to the reverse on the HDs. The valve blocks on both Soloiste models is supposed to be new.

My experience playing the 22HD, 33HD, MG, and OT models is that they play very similarly and are capable of a wide range of colors. For me, they all play very evenly through the range and have consistent intonation. The differences I noticed were the 22HD does feel pretty big and the MG was a bit tight for my taste. I found that I sounded pretty much the same on all models.

It's a shame that the music store world has changed so much and there are just not many places where you can go in and have a lot of options to try. If you are fortunate to be near a store that carries these, I would try them all.
_________________
"Blow in the small end."

Bb: Schilke SB4-OT
Bb: Monette early-Chicago
C: Schilke SC4-OT
Eb/D: Schilke E3L
Pic: Schilke P5-4
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Trumpetus wrote:
Both Soloiste models have HD bells. The OT is a #3 HD bell and the MG is a new taper.


The MG bell from what I have gathered is not an HD bell....here is a description from Schilke:

The MG bell was a new design for us. It is side-seamed like the HD bells, but slightly thinner/lighter (not as light as the B-Series. The taper of the bell is more similar to a Bach 37 bell.

And should sound different than HD models:

I think the SB4-OT is more similar to the tonal qualities of the HD trumpet line, while offering a slightly different response/resistance while the SB4-MG is a bit more unique.

At least I hope that is the case.....
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Notlem
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: SchilkeHD or Soliste Reply with quote

CurtisCalderon wrote:
I must have gotten the bells reversed. I thought a #3 was closer to a 72. I'll have to put a call in this week and write stuff down this time. I think you are right. I know I was seeing that the A bell was similar to a 72, B bell a 37 and C bell a 43 but now they go by bell taper number. A probably equals 1?

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
Curtis started to mention Bach bells and a Gold brass bell on an S33HD. The Schilke #1,#2 and #3 bells sort of correspond to the Bach 72, 37, 43 and maybe 25.


That’s how I remember them, I was never sure what Bach bell the C was closet too either. I just not sure what lines up with the giant #0 bell they have on the HC models… wonder if it’s the same one the bud use to use… but I thought that was the O bell that they no longer had a mold for.

O=o?
A=1
B=2
C=3

I have had a #3 and #1 beryllium bell on the same horn and it was night and day difference (b3 vs x3).

Now they have so many conics and bells it’s kinda crazy. Glad they separate the choices based on the line model. If they would just make all the main bodies and have each bell model/material, where you could flip out on a tunable bell, you could really get something custom figured out pretty quick. I wonder if their factory is setup to do that.

-marc
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Goby
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was
A=#1 = Martin committee (maybe similar to Bach 72)
B= #2 = original schilke design (probably similar to bach 43)
C = #3 = Besson (similar to Bach 25/37)
O = #0 = larger than Martin committee, no comparison
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