View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:27 am Post subject: Tuning slide question |
|
|
Probably a silly question, but once you get used to playing notes by ear/mental image, how do you use the tuning slide properly? I recently experimented with a tuner and it seems I adjust my pitch to the same level regardless of the position of the tuning slide. For the notes in the staff (which are usually the ones the orchestra tunes to) it takes as much as 2-3 inches before there's any noticeable effect on the pitch. I'm having a similar issue in the orchestra, when the conductor tunes I tend to adjust to whomever played right before I do. How can you tell that the tuning slide is in the proper position?
N.B. I used to play with the tuning slide about 1/4" out, but given that my notes above the staff tend to be sharp, I recently extended the tuning slide quite a bit more. That was when I found out my notes in the staff pretty much remained unchanged. Should I set my tuning slide to compensate for the high notes only? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
You can play in tune with the slide in various positions, but the resonance will be different.
Place the tuning slide where the sound is most resonant. _________________ Bill Bergren |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's true that for many people they will play the same pitch regardless of where the tuning slide is, to an extent. That's because most setups will allow a player to lip the notes up or down a bit. And while you might be able to play some with the tuning slide in the wrong place you will have to work harder to adjust, and there are bound to be bad notes, like you noticed above the staff.
If you get the impression that you are playing out of tune the first thing you need to do is adjust where you hear the pitch. Then if you find you're fighting the horn then you adjust the tuning slide to reduce the effort you expend fine-tuning your pitch with your lips. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, that at leaves gives me a starting point. I suppose I'd best it the practice room and start experimenting then. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PMonteiro Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2020 Posts: 130 Location: Hudson Valley
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Tuning slide question |
|
|
hibidogrulez wrote: | N.B. I used to play with the tuning slide about 1/4" out, but given that my notes above the staff tend to be sharp, I recently extended the tuning slide quite a bit more. That was when I found out my notes in the staff pretty much remained unchanged. Should I set my tuning slide to compensate for the high notes only? |
I used to do this to compensate for a sharp upper register, but my problem was due to tension. I found that pushing the slide in and reducing tension flattened the high notes and led to more efficient playing overall. So I wouldn't use the main tuning slide to compensate for sharp high notes unless the entire horn is more resonant at that setting. But your mileage may vary.
Otherwise I find that having the tuning slide in the "wrong" position leads to chipping notes more frequently, even if I can play them in tune. _________________ YTR-6335HSII
YTR-2320
Accord in C |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PMonteiro Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2020 Posts: 130 Location: Hudson Valley
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just as a fun story, I store my horns in their cases with the main slide all the way in. A few weeks ago I forgot to pull it out and I went through my entire warmup routine in tune without hearing a difference. It did feel a little funny, which made me look and realize the slide was all the way in. _________________ YTR-6335HSII
YTR-2320
Accord in C |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Tuning slide question |
|
|
PMonteiro wrote: | I used to do this to compensate for a sharp upper register, but my problem was due to tension. I found that pushing the slide in and reducing tension flattened the high notes and led to more efficient playing overall. So I wouldn't use the main tuning slide to compensate for sharp high notes unless the entire horn is more resonant at that setting. But your mileage may vary. |
That is one of my (many) problems too. After having played the notes above the staff (G to C) wrong for years, they're kinda stuck in my ear the wrong way, which makes it harder to change them. I was hoping to use the tuning slide to make the process easier, but ultimately you're right and I just have to play the correctly.
So to recap all the advice so far, I'd have to listen for difference in resonance, playability/effort in hitting the notes. That's useful advice, thanks everyone. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2309 Location: Beavercreek, OH
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, and some notes are more flexible than others.
I don't like "tuning" to the open concert Bb.. that note, to me, is very moveable. You can play it in tune with the tuning slide in a wide range of positions. I find the 2nd valve concert A (on a Bb trumpet) to be less flexible on most trumpets.
Then, as someone else noted, we need to find the most resonant spot / slot and set the tuning slide for that tone.
So one approach is to bend a note (up & down)and find that sweet spot, THEN check the tuner - move the tuning slide accordingly.
Of course, then we have to learn where the best spot is for the instrument's overall range so we are playing with the best resonant tone and having to adjust the pitch tendancies the least. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 163 Location: Spain
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The last audio of the CD of the Buzzing Book, number 75 I think, does exactly what Zaferis says.
I like to do it with my eyes closed and I open them when I get the sound. If the light is not green I move the tuning slide. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
zaferis wrote: | . . having to adjust the pitch tendancies the least. |
zaferis, I've mentioned this before but just to reinforce what you said - I have a friend in the Philadelphia Orchestra and one time, I asked him how the Orchestra played so well in tune. "We don't", he answered. "We play out of tune, together". _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bachatit Regular Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Posts: 57
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
I "bend" the tuning note up and down to find where it resonates and/or centers best and then move my tuning slide accordingly. Best |
|
Back to top |
|
|
delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To the OP: everybody tries to explain but it all comes back to the answer of Billy B. Some here mix up your question with another slightly related topic: the bad habit of playing high on the pitch. The answer of Billy B. is so good because of another insight: a teacher can’t learn you to play, he only can help you with you learning to play. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Billy B. is spot on.
It must be mentioned that quality horns are built (designed) for the tuning slide to be out around 1/2" or thereabouts.
If the pitch climbs as you ascend and the horn has no other issues, you are playing sharp. That is likely from too much tension, a mismatch between you, the horn, and the mouthpiece, or you haven't developed the skill to keep in tune.
It is true that some players have their slides out much further. That can often be attributed to the size of their oral cavity.
Some players, like me, were taught to have the slide in as far as possible and learn to make the pitch go down as you ascend. You must listen for the resonance in the sound.
That comes for diligent practice.
R. Tomasek |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jason Rogers Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Salisbury, MD
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Tuning Slide |
|
|
Most Bb trumpets are built to be played with the tuning slide out about a half an inch---think of it as a micro tuner, especially when using mutes---practice ear training---be able to sing your music---your success in developing ear training will determine your success in attaining a professional position---moving the tuning slide does not make the trumpet player---proper sense of pitch and practice in this area makes the player---proper playing technique allows you to develop pitch---practice in ensemble _________________ Martin Committee 1954
Benge
Bach Stradivarius
Schilke
Getzen |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
delano wrote: | To the OP: everybody tries to explain but it all comes back to the answer of Billy B. Some here mix up your question with another slightly related topic: the bad habit of playing high on the pitch. The answer of Billy B. is so good because of another insight: a teacher can’t learn you to play, he only can help you with you learning to play. |
It is, and I apprecate it (and yours as well). It does help to have a little general direction on what to look out for though. It was a new experience for me that apparently I was adjusting the tuning note subconciously, and made me wonder how you're supposed to tune if not by pitch, but I think I understand now. What zaferis mentioned about the flexibility of the concert Bb was helpful too: playing a scale with a tuner helped me identify a pitch trend and adjust the slide accordingly. Playing and tuning by ear is definitely on my list of things to work on, but being able to identify resonance and pitch difference is something I'm just starting to learn.
As for the high register pitch issue, you're right in that it's a separate thing altogether. The reason I mentioned it at all was because I've had some trouble lipping notes down far enough and I wondered if that were because my tuning slide was just too far in, but I agree it probably doesn't. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|