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How am I supposed to buzz on the 19/30s exercise?



 
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chief757
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject: How am I supposed to buzz on the 19/30s exercise? Reply with quote

Hey guys. I found an exercise yesterday that is supposed to teach your chops to play relaxed and without tension. I basically play the opposite of this. My chops are extremely stiff and hard when I play. I have a certain feeling this might be why I'm not improving, and why my endurance is terrible. I know this exercise has been posted here before, and I have read the pdf on it, but I really just don't know how to get a note. I can blow air fine with no tension, but the second I bring my lips together so I can buzz, my chops stiffen. The pdf says to just let go of the air and it will make a note, but it just blows air through the instsrument. I also acknowledge there is some tension required, but the only way for me to play a note is if my face is all tight. Even doing it without the instrument, free buzzing is impossible without hardening my muscles. I regret not finding this exercise a few months ago when I got my braces off. I formed a new embouchure and that would have been the most beneficial. I have high spirits I will improve and it will take time, but I want the most out of it. Right now, this is the only thing I can think of to why I can't improve. I've had the same sound and range for months now, even when I practice every single day. Since I tense my muscles when I play, it makes them very fatigued which in turn makes me used more pressure. I more I think about it, the more I think it comes down to the chop stiffness. Also, does anyone have any videos or images of someone trying this exercise? I just want to see what exactly is happening to create the note. Thanks
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PH
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lips "buzz" in response to the flowing air and the note vibrating in the instrument. Try to not "try to buzz" and simply blow the air and gradually bring your lips together until a note speaks. It might not be the note you intended, but if you hear the target note in your imagination (audiation) it probably will be. From that point you jost go with that. Blow your chops into position until they know how things work.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: How am I supposed to buzz on the 19/30s exercise? Reply with quote

chief757 wrote:
Hey guys. I found an exercise yesterday that is supposed to teach your chops to play relaxed and without tension. I basically play the opposite of this. My chops are extremely stiff and hard when I play. I have a certain feeling this might be why I'm not improving, and why my endurance is terrible.


You now have a teacher.

Your teacher has assigned you pedal tones in an attempt to help you with your excessive tension. Please follow your teacher's directions for a few months. At this point in your development, you do not have the experience to evaluate or execute the overwhelming amount of advice available on the internet.

Personally, I did not overcome my excessive tension until I spent some time learning low brass. but that was just my experience. Your teacher observes you every week and is your best source of guidance.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Point of Reference, could someone either explain what they're talking about, or at least post a link to it? Thanks.
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chief757
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I think of it, you're right andy. While I do think the teacher I have probably dosen't have much experience of teaching, I have heard the saying "trust the training". Experimenting on my part probably isn't a good idea in general.

As for kehaulani, here you go: http://www.rustyrussell.com/1930s/1930sRev.pdf

Thanks for getting my head out of the bucket. I'll stick with the teachers instructions, however, I'll keep in the back of my mind that if this won't work out, a more professional teacher is an option.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I started playing again 6 years ago, I found I was using too much pressure. I ran into the link shown here and I swear by it. It got me back to relaxed playing the way I did when I was younger. It's another way of doing long tone exercises, but with a different approach. I still do it a couple of times a month along with my regular routines.

George
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, chief.

(Gad, that sucker's long. )
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple of articles by a trumpet player named Jason Pellett that helped me overcome some of my self induced tension. They reinforce the information provided by PH.

http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2005/10/sound-production.html

http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2006/07/artless-art.html
http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2006/07/artless-art-part-ii.html
http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2006/07/artless-art-part-iii.html

http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2006/02/before-beginning.html
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some time to kill, so I thought I would give this exercise a shot this evening. My chops are trash right now. I've pretty much reduced my playing to demonstrating for my middle school students. Holy Hades 19/30s was rough. There was shaking and warbling and the buzz randomly cutting in and out. I learned that if I wanted to do any serious playing right now it would be a total rebuild.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me if I've synthesized this.

Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.

Did I miss anything?
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Tell me if I've synthesized this.

Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.

Did I miss anything?


Hmm, not really except that this is old stuff, I guess something like from 15 year ago and known by almost everybody here and practiced daily by a lot of players. I remember writing here on TH maybe six/seven years ago that I made the 19/30 into a 23/30 by adding a low F and by repeating the Eflat, the D and the Dflat because I believe that these notes with the use of the third slide need extra practice.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Tell me if I've synthesized this.

Exercise: Long Tones from Middle C down to Low F#.
How: Play pitch for 30 seconds, alternating with 30 seconds of rest.
Method: keep mouth completely relaxed. Begin by exhaling air and let the sound gradually come into being. Do not do any other tension-support things, like tensing stomach, etc. Do not begin tone with a buzz. Keep mouth and neck relaxed.
Tip" It's not so much what you play but how you play.

Did I miss anything?


As far as I am concerned, you got it right. I should also say that I alternate the 19/30 with delano's 23/30.

George
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
As far as I am concerned, you got it right.
Gad, why did I spend half the evening reading through all of this?

And, yes, it's common sense but we need to keep in mind that everything is new to someone before it's not.
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