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Different fingering possibilities for the same note



 
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arker
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 pm    Post subject: Different fingering possibilities for the same note Reply with quote

Hey, Y'all!!

I am self-taught...help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kiding

There are several notes I can play using different fingerings.
Can I pick the one that suits best for the "whole phrase fingering"? what's the best practices here?
I can't hear any difference at all between them!...am I too good or do I have bad ears? lol..
look at some examples I've figured out (I am very proud of myself..should I?)

higher E in the staff (for A major scale I use ii instead)
000 (i)
xx0 (ii)

first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)

C in the staff (for Manha de Carnaval I use ii instead)
000 (i)
0XX (ii)

A in the staff (I've never ever used ii)
XX0 (i)
00X (ii)

thank you!!!

Andre
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you need a fingering chart that shows the original fingering before you fool around with alternate fingerings which are often out of tune. A quick Google search for a trumpet fingering chart will produce results.
George
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of self taughting a musical instrument is some orientation or even investigation of the theoretical base of the instrument.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'standard' fingerings generally produce good results - especially when you are playing in an ensemble - because with everyone using the 'standard', it is more likely that all the pitches will combine properly.

If playing alone, the performer has a much wider choice for how the notes should sound.

And yes, with some key signatures, an alternate fingering can produce a better pitch, and also perhaps easier finger movement.

A good learning technique is to use the standard fingerings, and to be able to play various scales so ALL the scales sound 'correct' - without any 'bad notes'.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with this. For the sake of consistency in section playing and for timbre, which alternate fingering can affect, learn the standard fingerings first.

A general rule on almost everything is that you have to know the "from" so you can know what you're departing from.

FYI, Bix practically made a cottage industry out of alternate fingering. But that was mostly as the only cornet in an ensemble and, well, he's Box.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
The 'standard' fingerings generally produce good results - especially when you are playing in an ensemble - because with everyone using the 'standard', it is more likely that all the pitches will combine properly.

If playing alone, the performer has a much wider choice for how the notes should sound.

And yes, with some key signatures, an alternate fingering can produce a better pitch, and also perhaps easier finger movement.

A good learning technique is to use the standard fingerings, and to be able to play various scales so ALL the scales sound 'correct' - without any 'bad notes'.


Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only one of your alternate fingerings that raises a red flag for me is:

"first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)"

Yes, the i fingering tends to be a bit sharp, but your ii fingering will be even sharper -- ii isn't even on the alternate-fingering map for most players. If you're using ii to play the G more in tune I think you need to shed that lick a lot, using the i fingering.
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ebolton
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:

Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing.


Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages?
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebolton wrote:
Billy B wrote:
Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing.
Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages?

Some teachers recommend it.

Look closely at page 80 - Chromatic Triplets - in the Arban's book.

G.

PS: I have been instructed to use alternate fingerings in ensembles both large and small. When the director is a trumpet player I'll be told what they are.
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arker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nieuwguyski wrote:
The only one of your alternate fingerings that raises a red flag for me is:

"first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)"

Yes, the i fingering tends to be a bit sharp, but your ii fingering will be even sharper -- ii isn't even on the alternate-fingering map for most players. If you're using ii to play the G more in tune I think you need to shed that lick a lot, using the i fingering.


Mr.,
It seems you're the only one that read my alternatives "i and ii"
thank you! I hear what you're saying. I appreciate your comments and will pay attention.
See that are only a few scale/music (as I've mentioned along with the note) that I alternate to ii, all the other playings I use the alternative i (the standard one)
For the G case. I use ii because it's easier and delicious to play that way...it never even occurred to me to use it in any other song/scale....

and
respectfully, for all the others "you should learn the standard" people: of course I've learned the standard first! or my question wouldn't make any sense ...I've checked the tunning between "i and ii" and they always match...put them with a recording and it's in tune..jeez!
I am just happy that I can choose (consciously) between 2 different forms....it's like a play lol !!

thank y'all and have fun!!!
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebolton wrote:
Billy B wrote:

Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing.


Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages?


Absolutely.
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Avan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Alt. Fingerings Reply with quote

The only time I use Alt. Fingering's is to slot the A above the staff.

Resonates a lot better on my trumpet.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who never use alternate fingerings have never played Eb trumpet or cumbersome trills!!
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arker
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
People who never use alternate fingerings have never played Eb trumpet or cumbersome trills!!


thank you for your incentive Mr.

the fun thing to me is, It depends on the order of the notes around (especially the one before) to make it happen and the sound needs to be in my head or I won't make it...

a good one I like too is 0x0 instead of 0xx to G# above the staff when descending "Amajor scale"...

I'll take care not to deviate from the std when studying though.
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