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arker New Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2021 Posts: 10 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:02 pm Post subject: Different fingering possibilities for the same note |
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Hey, Y'all!!
I am self-taught...help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kiding
There are several notes I can play using different fingerings.
Can I pick the one that suits best for the "whole phrase fingering"? what's the best practices here?
I can't hear any difference at all between them!...am I too good or do I have bad ears? lol..
look at some examples I've figured out (I am very proud of myself..should I?)
higher E in the staff (for A major scale I use ii instead)
000 (i)
xx0 (ii)
first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)
C in the staff (for Manha de Carnaval I use ii instead)
000 (i)
0XX (ii)
A in the staff (I've never ever used ii)
XX0 (i)
00X (ii)
thank you!!!
Andre _________________ Andre Kerbauy
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Self Taught
Yamaha 6335 |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I think you need a fingering chart that shows the original fingering before you fool around with alternate fingerings which are often out of tune. A quick Google search for a trumpet fingering chart will produce results.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:14 am Post subject: |
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Part of self taughting a musical instrument is some orientation or even investigation of the theoretical base of the instrument. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3275 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: |
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The 'standard' fingerings generally produce good results - especially when you are playing in an ensemble - because with everyone using the 'standard', it is more likely that all the pitches will combine properly.
If playing alone, the performer has a much wider choice for how the notes should sound.
And yes, with some key signatures, an alternate fingering can produce a better pitch, and also perhaps easier finger movement.
A good learning technique is to use the standard fingerings, and to be able to play various scales so ALL the scales sound 'correct' - without any 'bad notes'. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Agree with this. For the sake of consistency in section playing and for timbre, which alternate fingering can affect, learn the standard fingerings first.
A general rule on almost everything is that you have to know the "from" so you can know what you're departing from.
FYI, Bix practically made a cottage industry out of alternate fingering. But that was mostly as the only cornet in an ensemble and, well, he's Box. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | The 'standard' fingerings generally produce good results - especially when you are playing in an ensemble - because with everyone using the 'standard', it is more likely that all the pitches will combine properly.
If playing alone, the performer has a much wider choice for how the notes should sound.
And yes, with some key signatures, an alternate fingering can produce a better pitch, and also perhaps easier finger movement.
A good learning technique is to use the standard fingerings, and to be able to play various scales so ALL the scales sound 'correct' - without any 'bad notes'. |
Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2335 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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The only one of your alternate fingerings that raises a red flag for me is:
"first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)"
Yes, the i fingering tends to be a bit sharp, but your ii fingering will be even sharper -- ii isn't even on the alternate-fingering map for most players. If you're using ii to play the G more in tune I think you need to shed that lick a lot, using the i fingering. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: |
Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing. |
Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages? _________________ -Ed |
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ghelbig Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011 Posts: 908 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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ebolton wrote: | Billy B wrote: | Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing. | Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages? |
Some teachers recommend it.
Look closely at page 80 - Chromatic Triplets - in the Arban's book.
G.
PS: I have been instructed to use alternate fingerings in ensembles both large and small. When the director is a trumpet player I'll be told what they are. |
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arker New Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2021 Posts: 10 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | The only one of your alternate fingerings that raises a red flag for me is:
"first G above the staff (in Take Five I use ii instead)
000 (i)
X00 (ii)"
Yes, the i fingering tends to be a bit sharp, but your ii fingering will be even sharper -- ii isn't even on the alternate-fingering map for most players. If you're using ii to play the G more in tune I think you need to shed that lick a lot, using the i fingering. |
Mr.,
It seems you're the only one that read my alternatives "i and ii"
thank you! I hear what you're saying. I appreciate your comments and will pay attention.
See that are only a few scale/music (as I've mentioned along with the note) that I alternate to ii, all the other playings I use the alternative i (the standard one)
For the G case. I use ii because it's easier and delicious to play that way...it never even occurred to me to use it in any other song/scale....
and
respectfully, for all the others "you should learn the standard" people: of course I've learned the standard first! or my question wouldn't make any sense ...I've checked the tunning between "i and ii" and they always match...put them with a recording and it's in tune..jeez!
I am just happy that I can choose (consciously) between 2 different forms....it's like a play lol !!
thank y'all and have fun!!! _________________ Andre Kerbauy
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Self Taught
Yamaha 6335 |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:59 am Post subject: |
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ebolton wrote: | Billy B wrote: |
Wrong. Alternate fingerings are often used in ensemble playing to adjust intonation and timbre depending largely on what part of the chord you are playing. |
Does it make sense sometimes to use alternate fingerings to avoid a lot of excess finger motion in some passages? |
Absolutely. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Avan Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2012 Posts: 396 Location: Ventura County, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Alt. Fingerings |
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The only time I use Alt. Fingering's is to slot the A above the staff.
Resonates a lot better on my trumpet. _________________ 1948 Selmer GP
" Man Without an Audience "
Album Release - 2017
" Mi Vida es Una Cancion "
Album release - 2022
USAF 1974-1980 E-4 |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 673 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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People who never use alternate fingerings have never played Eb trumpet or cumbersome trills!! _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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arker New Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2021 Posts: 10 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | People who never use alternate fingerings have never played Eb trumpet or cumbersome trills!! |
thank you for your incentive Mr.
the fun thing to me is, It depends on the order of the notes around (especially the one before) to make it happen and the sound needs to be in my head or I won't make it...
a good one I like too is 0x0 instead of 0xx to G# above the staff when descending "Amajor scale"...
I'll take care not to deviate from the std when studying though. _________________ Andre Kerbauy
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Self Taught
Yamaha 6335 |
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