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what is jazz


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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: what is jazz Reply with quote

If you had to teach someone what jazz is, and ideally have them appreciate it, what recording would you show them?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cannonball:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BulaEQHT8
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Armstrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfORYuSJXTY
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is tough!

If I wanted to show them jazz evolved to its 50's post-bop, small group form, and demonstrate improvisation and the rhythmic concept of swing in an appealing, upbeat package, I might show them this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE1t6lUVB_k


On the other hand, if I thought they might be better informed by sheer melodic beauty rather than up-tempo, improvised solos, I might choose this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGzrwu7uTCo


However, if I thought they'd "relate" better to something with which they were familiar, and they knew their cartoons, this is what I'd share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmy3Hvqfq0

(Bet you thought I'd pick some version of "The Flintstones" theme, hmm? HAH!)
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a lot of thinking, I think I'd probably show them a video that showcases the jazz mentality, as that is IMHO what makes jazz so great compared to other styles.

So either this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA0VhsTjKY0

or this (yes, I know it's funk, but it shows the interaction between the musicians):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8tiL14J-bs
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
After a lot of thinking, I think I'd probably show them a video that showcases the jazz mentality, as that is IMHO what makes jazz so great compared to other styles.

So either this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA0VhsTjKY0


Really after a lot of thinking?
At first I could not stop laughing but just a little bit later I understood that in fact it’s more appropriate to feel deeply sorry for you.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
hibidogrulez wrote:
After a lot of thinking, I think I'd probably show them a video that showcases the jazz mentality, as that is IMHO what makes jazz so great compared to other styles.

So either this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA0VhsTjKY0


Really after a lot of thinking?
At first I could not stop laughing but just a little bit later I understood that in fact it’s more appropriate to feel deeply sorry for you.

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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: what is jazz Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
If you had to teach someone what jazz is, and ideally have them appreciate it, what recording would you show them?


It would be a series of recordings. Here is a start.
Cannonball Adderley—Somethin' Else
Herbie Hancock—Maiden Voyage
Clifford Brown—Study In Brown
John Coltrane—Blue Train
Cannonball Adderley—& Coltrane
Wayne Shorter—Speak No Evil
Horace Silver—Song For My Father
Dizzy Gillespie—Sonny Side Up
Miles Davis—Kind Of Blue
John Coltrane—Giant Steps
J. J. Johnson—The Eminent Volume 1
Eric Dolphy—Out To Lunch
Oliver Nelson—Blues & The Abstract Truth
Lee Morgan—The Sidewinder
Hank Mobley—Soul Station
Miles Davis—Milestones
Wes Montgomery—Smokin At The Half Note
Lee Morgan—Cornbread
Larry Young—Unity
Sonny Rollins—Saxophone Collossus
John Coltrane—Mainstream 1958
Mccoy Tyner—The Real Mccoy
John Coltrane—A Love Supreme
Johnny Smith—Moonlight In Vermont
Paul Chambers—Chambers Music
June Christy—Something Cool
Dizzy Gillespie—Jazz At Massey Hall
Art Blakey—A Night At Birdland Vol. 1
Dizzy Gillespie—Duets
Bill Evans—Undercurrent
Gene Ammons—Boss Tenors
Kenny Burrell—& John Coltrane
Miles Davis—'Round About Midnight
Erroll Garner—Concert By The Sea
Miles Davis—Relaxin' With Miles
Wes Montgomery—Incredible Jazz Guitar
Joe Henderson—Page One
Frank Rosolino—Free For All
Wes Montgomery—Full House
Art Farmer—Modern Art
Carl Fontana—5 Star Ed
Sonny Rollins—Tenor Madness
Art Blakey—Moanin'
Thelonious Monk—With John Coltrane
Chick Corea—Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Freddie Hubbard—Open Sesame
Bill Evans—Sunday At Village Vanguard
Charlie Parker—Now's The Time
Stan Getz—For Musician's Only
Dizzy Gillespie—Groovin' High
Dexter Gordon—Ballads
Charlie Parker—Bird & Diz
Joe Henderson—Lush Life, Strayhorn Music
Freddie Hubbard—Red Clay
Bill Evans—Waltz For Debby
Kenny Dorham—Una Mas
Lester Young—The President Plays W/The Oscar Peterson Trio
Joe Henderson—In 'N Out
John Coltrane—& Johnny Hartman
Grant Green—Feelin' The Spirit
Nancy Wilson—With Cannonball Add.
Miles Davis—Cookin'
Red Garland—Groovy
Miles Davis—Steamin' With Miles Davis
Johnny Griffin—A Blowin' Session
Grant Green—Born To Be Blue
John Coltrane—Ballads
Johnny Hartman—I Just Dropped By To Say Hello
Carl Fontana—The Great Fontana
Grant Green—Idle Moments
Art Blakey—Ugetsu
Stanley Turrentine—Sugar
Bill Evans—Intermodulation
Art Blakey—A Night At Birdland Vol. 2
Freddie Hubbard—Hub Tones
Hank Mobley—The Turnaround!
Bud Powell—The Genius Of
Lee Konitz—Subconscious-Lee
Stan Getz—Stan Getz & Bill Evans
Milt Jackson—Bags Meets Wes
Jimmy Smith—Back At The Chicken Shack
Sonny Rollins—Plus Four
June Christy—The Misty Miss Christy
Joe Henderson—Inner Urge
Duke Ellington—Money Jungle
Woody Herman—Keeper Of The Flame
Chet Baker—Playboys
Bud Powell—The Amazing—Vol 1
Oscar Peterson—Plays Count Basie
Clifford Brown—Brown/Roach Inc.
Stan Kenton—Duet
Joe Henderson—Mode For Joe
Horace Silver—Blowin' The Blues Away
Clifford Brown—More Study In Brown
Sonny Clark—Leapin' And Lopin'
Blue Mitchell—The Thing To Do
Johnny Griffin—Introducing
Sonny Stitt—Constellation
Slide Hampton—World Of Trombones
Keith Jarrett—Standards Vol. 1
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: what is jazz Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Really after a lot of thinking?
At first I could not stop laughing but just a little bit later I understood that in fact it’s more appropriate to feel deeply sorry for you.

Yeah, it's safer to not reply at all...that way instead of getting laughed at, you can laugh at the choices of others. As usual, I'm sorry I do not live up to your ridiculous standards.

Billy B wrote:
It would be a series of recordings. Here is a start.

Not used to seeing you write posts longer than a single sentence...or actually contributing something substantial to a thread really. Nice job.

The number of great jazz recordings numbers in the tens of thousands, and picking a single one is pretty much impossible (even Billy B can't limit his list to less than a few dozen).

The reason I posted that particular recording though is because it shows that playing jazz is fun, creative and allows for freedom of expression. Also, unlike some of the more legit pieces, it's also very easy to get into if you're unfamiliar with the genre. You cannot appreciate a 10 minute bebop solo if you're a first time listener. The final reason is that it has a sample of how improvisation and musical interaction/reaction functions, in a way that someone who's not heard the genre before can understand. That's also why I added the second link by the way, to show someone unfamiliar with modern music how a jam session works outside of the actual song itself.


Last edited by deleted_user_687c31b on Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: what is jazz Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
delano wrote:
Really after a lot of thinking?
At first I could not stop laughing but just a little bit later I understood that in fact it’s more appropriate to feel deeply sorry for you.

Yeah, it's safer to not reply at all...that way instead of getting laughed at, you can laugh at the choices of others. As usual, I'm sorry I do not live up to your ridiculous standards.

Billy B wrote:
It would be a series of recordings. Here is a start.

Not used to seeing you write posts longer than a single sentence...or actually contributing something substantial to a thread really. Nice job.


thanks
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: what is jazz Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
If you had to teach someone what jazz is, and ideally have them appreciate it, what recording would you show them?
I'm going to restate the PO's question. It seems to me the (one?) example (and there are myriad) should not be percieved s "old fashioned", i.e., funny, quant, outdated, and it should have energy to draw in the listener. S/he can expand their knowledge/appreciation outward from that, later.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: what is jazz Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
It seems to me the (one?) example (and there are myriad) should not be percieved s "old fashioned", i.e., funny, quant, outdated, and it should have energy to draw in the listener.


This makes sense to me . . . after all, if aliens asked me what we humans use for ground transportation (and they often do ), my first impulse would not be to whip out a picture of a Stanley Steamer or one of those tiny cars that Shriners drive in parades.

It also would help to use a jazz rendition of a song already familiar to the would-be jazz novitiate. I remember attending a Dizzy Gillespie concert with friends while I was in high school. One friend (jazz-illiterate, but a fan of Broadway musicals) told me afterwards that he was at a loss as to what the band was doing--that is, until they played a number from the 'great American songbook'. Then, BINGO!, a light went on, and he had a pretty good appreciation of what the 'game' was all about.

This thread has left me with a disturbing hypothetical dilemma: If I were stranded on a desert island, what would I prefer to have with me -- the collected works of Miles Davis, or the collected works of Chris Barber? . . . what to do . . . what to do . . . 🤪🤪🤪


Last edited by Halflip on Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Trumpjerele
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to start somewhere, I would choose a standard and several versions to hear the differences. That's part of the magic of the style.

For example Sumertime played by 1 Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong, 2 Miles Davis and 3 Charlie Parker.

My wife doesn't like jazz almost at all, but she is surprised when a beautiful ballad enchants her. Chet baker playing almost blues is a safe bet.

I wouldn't give an endless list of iconic recordings, the hook must be small.
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khedger
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't be done. Jazz is too broad a subject to be displayed with a single work or album. That's like asking "If you wanted to teach somebody about classical music which album.....".

Leaning about jazz requires listening to a whole bunch of music from different eras and styles, AND understanding some historical context within
which a particular work came to life.

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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:
Can't be done. Jazz is too broad a subject to be displayed with a single work or album.


If we take the OP's entire question literally, then the first and last parts are likely in conflict. However, if we interpret the last part ("what recording would you show them?") as defining the context of the question (as some of us have clearly done, perhaps impulsively), then answers can be attempted.

A more realistic restatement of the question might be, "If someone who knows nothing about jazz approached you and asked to hear a random sample, what would you play for them that would give them an inkling of the genre and ideally inspire a desire to hear more?"
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh for . . It's not complex. The OP is not looking for encyclopedic knowledge to pass on, s/he's just looking for a hook. ~A~ hook. MOR, toe tapping and something that draws a listener in. It was a simple question. The other stuff can come later.
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Rapier232
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazz is mostly a bunch of people playing different tunes at the same time. 😎

While I appreciate the skill level of jazz players, it’s not something I choose to listen to.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rapier232 wrote:
Jazz is mostly a bunch of people playing different tunes at the same time. 😎

To extend your attempt at creating a "Devil's Dictionary" definition of jazz . . .

When the tunes 'fit together' within the general framework of diatonic harmony, it's called dixieland, or "trad jazz".

When the tunes do not 'fit together' within the general framework of diatonic harmony, it's called "free jazz".

When the tunes do not 'fit together' within the general framework of diatonic harmony and also do not 'swing', it's called atonal chamber music.

Ha ha ha, that was fun!


Rapier232 wrote:
While I appreciate the skill level of jazz players, it’s not something I choose to listen to.

While I appreciate the skill level you demonstrated in composing your post, it's not something I choose to applaud when it's quite obvious that you did not read a single previous post within this thread (including that of the OP, which describes what is really being asked).
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing truer than this statement by the great Satchmo:

" If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know. "
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, my mistake. I often forget that this is a trumpet forum, not a jazz trumpet forum. So on a question like the OP’s you can expect anything. The more with posters who seem to have problems with finding the balance between an urgent need to help people and the ability to do so. I suppose I should be glad nobody mentioned The Lonely Bull by Herb Alpert hit as a true jazz example. So I see only two serious attempts to answer the OP: Billy B and khedger. The list of Billy B contains just a bit too many personal preferences and could be a little broader, I miss some oldies like King Oliver, Fletcher Henderson and Jelly Roll Morton and some more recent stuff like Miles Smiles and maybe Bitches Brew.
Also I like the post of GeorgeB.
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