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jpwol
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 15
Location: France
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 Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:47 am Post subject: Mutes for small bell |
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Hi !
I have some difficulties finding the right mutes for my new C trumpet. I just bought a Couesnon Monopole C trumpet (from 1931, a real beauty that plays great). The thing is the bell is really tight and small. Great for French music like Tomasi, Jolivet, Ravel or others, but I have to find a new set of mutes because mine (Denis Wick, Stone Line, Jo Ral) don't fit, it is way too big.
I saw the Leblanc mute that I think could match, but not sure..
Would you have some ideas? Most important for straight and cup, but wah-wah/harmon too.. Thanks !
_________________
Bb: Bach 72
C: Bach 229 / 25H (1980)
C: Couesnon Monopole (1931)
Bach Mt Vernon NY 1 trumpet mouthpiece
Cornet Yamaha Xeno
Cornet Besson Breveté c.1880 w/original mouthpiece
Mahillon natural trumpet (19th century) / Egger MZ1 mouthpiece |
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huntman10
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017
Posts: 691
Location: Texas South Plains
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I have that problem with some of my Eb's. I have used H&B Pixie mutes with the corks filed down. The smaller the volume of the mute, the worse it gets in the lower range. Experiment gradually with the corks.
You might be able to get a used H&B straight mute cheaply and an emery board (finger nail file) and file it down little by little to see if it will work.
For Eb Harmon, we get a Tom Crown pic mute and wrap a strip of two sides foam tape and a strip of cork over the existing cork. I got that straight from the Tom Crown guys at ITG in 2018.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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jpwol
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 15
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice !
I will try the H&B pixie mute so. You heard about Leblanc? An old fashionned style mute so I hope it can work.
And for the cup mute you have an idea maybe? Thanks again !
_________________
Bb: Bach 72
C: Bach 229 / 25H (1980)
C: Couesnon Monopole (1931)
Bach Mt Vernon NY 1 trumpet mouthpiece
Cornet Yamaha Xeno
Cornet Besson Breveté c.1880 w/original mouthpiece
Mahillon natural trumpet (19th century) / Egger MZ1 mouthpiece |
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CRoberts8
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 833
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Mutes for small bell |
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| jpwol wrote: | Hi !
I have some difficulties finding the right mutes for my new C trumpet. I just bought a Couesnon Monopole C trumpet (from 1931, a real beauty that plays great). The thing is the bell is really tight and small. Great for French music like Tomasi, Jolivet, Ravel or others, but I have to find a new set of mutes because mine (Denis Wick, Stone Line, Jo Ral) don't fit, it is way too big.
I saw the Leblanc mute that I think could match, but not sure..
Would you have some ideas? Most important for straight and cup, but wah-wah/harmon too.. Thanks ! |
Hi! My experience is with mutes on Eb and F trumpets that will likely work well on your smaller belled C trumpet.
Take a look at what Tom Crown, Denis Wick, and Peter Gane brands make for D/Eb. I spent a good bit of time looking through catalogues of UK based retailers to see what they stocked for soprano cornets. There are likely quite a few more options out there, this is just what I ordered a few years ago and am very happy with.
Straight mute:
Wick makes a D/Eb straight mute that is excellent, and functions as expected compared to their bigger straight
Peter Gane D/Eb straight mute for a soft/fiber mute
Cup:
Wick D/Eb cup
Harmon style:
Stolzel D/Eb Trumpet / Soprano Cornet Wah Wah Mute (I have found this to be an excellent mute for C trumpet as well)
_________________
Charles Russell Roberts
Trumpet, Gaudete Brass Quintet
www.gaudetebrass.com |
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huntman10
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017
Posts: 691
Location: Texas South Plains
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Mutes for small bell |
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| CRoberts8 wrote: | | jpwol wrote: | Hi !
I have some difficulties finding the right mutes for my new C trumpet. I just bought a Couesnon Monopole C trumpet (from 1931, a real beauty that plays great). The thing is the bell is really tight and small. Great for French music like Tomasi, Jolivet, Ravel or others, but I have to find a new set of mutes because mine (Denis Wick, Stone Line, Jo Ral) don't fit, it is way too big.
I saw the Leblanc mute that I think could match, but not sure..
Would you have some ideas? Most important for straight and cup, but wah-wah/harmon too.. Thanks ! |
Hi! My experience is with mutes on Eb and F trumpets that will likely work well on your smaller belled C trumpet.
Take a look at what Tom Crown, Denis Wick, and Peter Gane brands make for D/Eb. I spent a good bit of time looking through catalogues of UK based retailers to see what they stocked for soprano cornets. There are likely quite a few more options out there, this is just what I ordered a few years ago and am very happy with.
Straight mute:
Wick makes a D/Eb straight mute that is excellent, and functions as expected compared to their bigger straight
Peter Gane D/Eb straight mute for a soft/fiber mute
Cup:
Wick D/Eb cup
Harmon style:
Stolzel D/Eb Trumpet / Soprano Cornet Wah Wah Mute (I have found this to be an excellent mute for C trumpet as well) |
I have the Tom Crown D mutes for straight and cup, and in fact used them last night with my Eb Schilke cornet (and I had to file the corks). Frankly, they are not small enough for a small bell C. I also have the EMO soprano Harmon, and it is almost too big for my Eb cornet. Way too big for a small bell C, IMHO
I did experiment with an H&B cup mute with a nail file. I could get acceptable results for the Schilke and Yamahe Eb cornets, but not for a small bell C I had. I just used a pixie mute with a plunger, which would not be suitable for any "formal" gigs, IMHO.
You might recork a piccolo cup mute but it may not work in the lower register. I will test the idea with my small bell D tonight and see.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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CRoberts8
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 833
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Mutes for small bell |
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| huntman10 wrote: | | CRoberts8 wrote: | | jpwol wrote: | Hi !
I have some difficulties finding the right mutes for my new C trumpet. I just bought a Couesnon Monopole C trumpet (from 1931, a real beauty that plays great). The thing is the bell is really tight and small. Great for French music like Tomasi, Jolivet, Ravel or others, but I have to find a new set of mutes because mine (Denis Wick, Stone Line, Jo Ral) don't fit, it is way too big.
I saw the Leblanc mute that I think could match, but not sure..
Would you have some ideas? Most important for straight and cup, but wah-wah/harmon too.. Thanks ! |
Hi! My experience is with mutes on Eb and F trumpets that will likely work well on your smaller belled C trumpet.
Take a look at what Tom Crown, Denis Wick, and Peter Gane brands make for D/Eb. I spent a good bit of time looking through catalogues of UK based retailers to see what they stocked for soprano cornets. There are likely quite a few more options out there, this is just what I ordered a few years ago and am very happy with.
Straight mute:
Wick makes a D/Eb straight mute that is excellent, and functions as expected compared to their bigger straight
Peter Gane D/Eb straight mute for a soft/fiber mute
Cup:
Wick D/Eb cup
Harmon style:
Stolzel D/Eb Trumpet / Soprano Cornet Wah Wah Mute (I have found this to be an excellent mute for C trumpet as well) |
I have the Tom Crown D mutes for straight and cup, and in fact used them last night with my Eb Schilke cornet (and I had to file the corks). Frankly, they are not small enough for a small bell C. I also have the EMO soprano Harmon, and it is almost too big for my Eb cornet. Way too big for a small bell C, IMHO
I did experiment with an H&B cup mute with a nail file. I could get acceptable results for the Schilke and Yamahe Eb cornets, but not for a small bell C I had. I just used a pixie mute with a plunger, which would not be suitable for any "formal" gigs, IMHO.
You might recork a piccolo cup mute but it may not work in the lower register. I will test the idea with my small bell D tonight and see. |
At least with Eb bells and F bells (Schilke #4, the stock E3L bell), any piccolo mutes I’ve used would be too small to properly recork, in my opinion.
I have some experience with Bach 236 and 211 bell C trumpets, which I’m imagining is akin to the C trumpet mentioned above but have no recollection of what mutes worked best there, alas.
_________________
Charles Russell Roberts
Trumpet, Gaudete Brass Quintet
www.gaudetebrass.com |
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jpwol
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 15
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks your all these tips !
I will find a way to try some D trumpet mutes, maybe in my local store.
I have some piccolo mutes but I think it will be too small to sound properly.
Thanks again, I will keep this post updated if I find something that works well !
_________________
Bb: Bach 72
C: Bach 229 / 25H (1980)
C: Couesnon Monopole (1931)
Bach Mt Vernon NY 1 trumpet mouthpiece
Cornet Yamaha Xeno
Cornet Besson Breveté c.1880 w/original mouthpiece
Mahillon natural trumpet (19th century) / Egger MZ1 mouthpiece |
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jpwol
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 15
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi ! Little update here, if it can help..
After trying the 3 mutes for my small bell Couesnon in my local store this is what I found.
The Denis Wick Eb mute is too little and the corks too large so the sound is like dull, not metallic and not projecting enough.
The Tom Crown D trumpet mute was a real winner: fits good into the bell, nice clear tone and possibilities for shaping the sound. I took this one.
There was a D/Eb trumpet mute made by an unknown French Maker in carbon fiber and wood; sounded absolutely beautiful for soft and delicate playing, but not what I was searching for as I needed more metal and projection. However I will buy it someday, as it is exactly what I would like in situations like La Mer or this kind of pieces...
_________________
Bb: Bach 72
C: Bach 229 / 25H (1980)
C: Couesnon Monopole (1931)
Bach Mt Vernon NY 1 trumpet mouthpiece
Cornet Yamaha Xeno
Cornet Besson Breveté c.1880 w/original mouthpiece
Mahillon natural trumpet (19th century) / Egger MZ1 mouthpiece |
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