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GeorgeB
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 Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: |
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OMG, no ! Herb Alpert's early material was absolutely NOT jazz. But he is in his 80s now and still playing. Maybe today he is embracing jazz, I don't know.
George
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Halflip
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | So I see only two serious attempts to answer the OP: Billy B and khedger. |
My original post was a serious attempt to answer the OP, but I took the OP seriously when they said "recording" in the singular. I subscribed to the notion that what the OP meant was, "If someone who knows nothing about jazz approached you and asked to hear a single random example, what would you play for them that would give them an inkling of the genre and ideally inspire a desire to hear more?" Or, as kehaulani said, what would be a good "hook"?
If the OP had said "what recordings would you show them?", I would have given a much different answer. |
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delano
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
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edited
Last edited by delano on Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Halflip
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | If you should take the OP really seriously you should have explained to him that what he wanted is not possible and certainly not realistic. Read for that the post of khedger. |
Perhaps I should have said that I took the OP "literally". At any rate, I guess I disagree with you. Read for that my reply to khedger, and the subsequent post from kehaulani. I appreciate your passion for your viewpoint, but I think that asking to see what people would suggest as a "hook" is a reasonable request. |
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delano
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: |
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No need to fight about futilities like these here. The OP's question is IMO a bridge too far, I really can't imagine that there will be a general agreement about ONE record so the OP will get, if taken seriously, hundereds of answers.
But maybe I found a possible solution though some may think this is too oldfashioned. And it's blues but all jazz is somewhere blues. And in any case about this one could be a liitle bit of agreement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXHdqTVC3cA
If that is too serious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6RH6k2yRq8 |
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GeorgeB
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: |
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It would certainly be hard to disagree on Westend Blues, delano. If I had to pick one, it would be this. I just hope this doesn't start an argument about whether or not blues is jazz... 
George
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: |
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delano, what on Earth are you talking about? Someone wants to expose someone to jazz. To start the conversation, he needs an example to get a mutual understanding of what he's talking about. And you believe he doesn't have a right to do this? Did I read your post wrong?
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mike ansberry
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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The question is very broad. To give someone an idea of what jazz is would take way more than one recording. Is Dixieland jazz? Swing? modern big band?
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delano
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | delano, what on Earth are you talking about? |
About taking music, more in particular jazz music, seriously instead of speaking about it as small talk. |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano, what on Earth are you talking about? |
About taking music, more in particular jazz music, seriously instead of speaking about it as small talk. |
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Rapier232
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: |
| Rapier232 wrote: | | While I appreciate the skill level of jazz players, it’s not something I choose to listen to. |
While I appreciate the skill level you demonstrated in composing your post, it's not something I choose to applaud when it's quite obvious that you did not read a single previous post within this thread (including that of the OP, which describes what is really being asked). |
Actually I read every post. My ‘frivolous’ comment was merely to point out that not everyone likes jazz, although that does appear to be a scandalous view to many.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Rapier232 wrote: | | Halflip wrote: |
| Rapier232 wrote: | | While I appreciate the skill level of jazz players, it’s not something I choose to listen to. |
While I appreciate the skill level you demonstrated in composing your post, it's not something I choose to applaud when it's quite obvious that you did not read a single previous post within this thread (including that of the OP, which describes what is really being asked). |
Actually I read every post. My ‘frivolous’ comment was merely to point out that not everyone likes jazz, although that does appear to be a scandalous view to many. |
It's actually a comment regularly posted here, which I would not describe as either 'frivolous' or 'scandalous' but perhaps as 'unnecessary' or 'uninformed.' I don't know why you would go to a jazz/commercial thread to post about why you don't listen to jazz music. |
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Jaw04
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| It is like Delano said, a bridge too far. There is not one recording that "sums up" jazz in a succinct package. It takes a lot of exploration and study if you are not exposed to it from an early age. Ken Burns Jazz is a decent place to start, although it is definitely imperfect. |
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Jaw04
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:26 am Post subject: Re: what is jazz |
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| hibidogrulez wrote: | | delano wrote: | Really after a lot of thinking?
At first I could not stop laughing but just a little bit later I understood that in fact it’s more appropriate to feel deeply sorry for you. |
Yeah, it's safer to not reply at all...that way instead of getting laughed at, you can laugh at the choices of others. As usual, I'm sorry I do not live up to your ridiculous standards.
| Billy B wrote: | | It would be a series of recordings. Here is a start. |
Not used to seeing you write posts longer than a single sentence...or actually contributing something substantial to a thread really. Nice job.
The number of great jazz recordings numbers in the tens of thousands, and picking a single one is pretty much impossible (even Billy B can't limit his list to less than a few dozen).
The reason I posted that particular recording though is because it shows that playing jazz is fun, creative and allows for freedom of expression. Also, unlike some of the more legit pieces, it's also very easy to get into if you're unfamiliar with the genre. You cannot appreciate a 10 minute bebop solo if you're a first time listener. The final reason is that it has a sample of how improvisation and musical interaction/reaction functions, in a way that someone who's not heard the genre before can understand. That's also why I added the second link by the way, to show someone unfamiliar with modern music how a jam session works outside of the actual song itself. |
10 minute bebop solo? What are you talking about? Give an example of that and then we are really getting into the weeds. Bebop recordings are concise, short, to the point, and need no watering down for a listener to appreciate. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | No need to fight about futilities like these here. The OP's question is IMO a bridge too far, I really can't imagine that there will be a general agreement about ONE record so the OP will get, if taken seriously, hundereds of answers.
But maybe I found a possible solution though some may think this is too oldfashioned. And it's blues but all jazz is somewhere blues. And in any case about this one could be a liitle bit of agreement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXHdqTVC3cA
If that is too serious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6RH6k2yRq8 |
For a serious answer, that's pretty accurate. It's certainly jazz, by the most basic, purist definition. The fact that it's old fashioned makes it kinda cool actually. However, it's unlikely that someone unfamiliar with jazz will appreciate it (way too slow, dragging on).
It's kinda like telling someone who's decided that they don't like classical music to listen to a standard recording of Beethoven's 5th. Yes, it'll teach them what classical music is but it's not gonna make them appreciate it. You'd probably get them more interested by starting with something like, older musical tunes (say, Les Miserables or Phantom of the Opera) or (you're gonna detest this) something like disney movie or video game music played by an orchestra, and then work your way up to the more traditional pieces.
Ironically, if I were to teach a young kid what jazz is, I'd probably show them Disney's Princess and the Frog. It's a pale comparison to actual jazz, but it's a great entry point into the genre, and the culture behind it (even with the political correctness and factual errors).
| Jaw04 wrote: | | 10 minute bebop solo? What are you talking about? Give an example of that and then we are really getting into the weeds. Bebop recordings are concise, short, to the point, and need no watering down for a listener to appreciate. |
Well, not exactly a 10 minute solo, and maybe I mislabel the term bebop to the wrong music, but I'm talking about the type of solos like the piano solo in this piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlepuNi40M8
To someone who's not into jazz, such solos can easily start to become repetitive and boring (partly so because they cannot catch the nuances). At least, that's the feedback I've often gotten from non-musical friends when I showed them recordings of jazz music. It doesn't even have to be a single solo, multiple shorter consecutive solos with the same backing track has the same result. |
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Halflip
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Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Rapier232 wrote: | | Actually I read every post. My ‘frivolous’ comment was merely to point out that not everyone likes jazz, although that does appear to be a scandalous view to many. |
I stand corrected.
You must admit, however, that your contribution is a bit of a non sequitur, given that the OP asked for jazz recording suggestions and you replied with a wry definition of jazz and a statement that you don't like it. Sort of like someone approaching you at a railway station and asking, "When is the next train to London?", and you replying with "I don't like steam engines", n'est-ce pas? So it is not surprising that, when I apply "ze little grey cells", I come to the conclusion that perhaps you never acquainted yourself with previous posts in the thread.
I am not scandalized at all that you and many others do not like jazz. There is a certain kind of music that I don't like. I generally don't feel the need to announce my feelings in the midst of its fans, though. 
Last edited by Halflip on Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chapahi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I think it was Louis Armstrong who said, "If you've got to ask, you'll never know...".
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falado
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:33 am Post subject: Re: what is jazz |
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| CJceltics33 wrote: | | If you had to teach someone what jazz is, and ideally have them appreciate it, what recording would you show them? |
I noticed the OP hasn't chimed in or further commented and this discussion has gone in different directions. Everybody has differing taste on the subject. Perhaps the OP could chime in and be more specific as to: Jazz in general, specific era, style, specific instrument, instrumentation, performer(s)? There is quite a variety and history.
I personally would look at The Blues Walk, Clifford Brown or maybe some Chet Baker, maybe even some contemporary, Big Phat Band, etc. Oops, now I'm wandering. Maybe we need more specifics?
Dave
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Billy B
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:53 am Post subject: Re: what is jazz |
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One shouldn't have to dumb down the material so someone will "appreciate" the content. One should undertake educating the person to realize the value of the art form. This isn't fast food.
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delano
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:58 am Post subject: |
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To mr. Hibidogrulez
After reading your posts I have to come to the conclusion that your take of jazz music is, how to say it, not quite developed. For you it seems to be some kind of entertainment music with a poppy sound and a drumkit. Believe me, that picture is not right, I'm afraid you'll have to work on that.
And yes, jazz can be difficult so it will be hard to sell to people who prefer instant musical satisfaction. But for them is enough stuff to find so let them not bother us.
My advice: start listening to real jazz and start reading about it. The list Billy B. gave above can be of great help, there are enough real great classics in it. .
Last edited by delano on Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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