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Adam's "orthodox" Leadpipe exercise?


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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Adam's "orthodox" Leadpipe exercise? Reply with quote

I've read numerous TH Forum threads and looked at a number of videos and I'm just confused. The information doesn't necessarily conflict in concept, what the Leadpipe is. Rather, it varies greatly in application.

Some recommend playing only the F-ish tone with as much purity and center you can, to arpeggios encompassing the lowest to the highest note possible, to even removing other slides and exercising from there.

I am not seeking the “best” way of playing it or permutations of the exercise, rather the most orthodox exercise as taught by Adam, himself. What did he say originally: one pure tone, extensive variations, what?

Thank you.
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falado
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi kehaulani, you might want to PM Nick Drozdoff about this. I studied with him when I was in Navy Band Great Lakes. He had me doing the lead pipe exercises and I don’t remember his explanations, but he teaches physics and talked at one time the theory of closed and open tubes. I used the exercise on new students so to get the tone and lip vibration feel naturally rather than buzzing a mouthpiece. The open tube causes lip vibration when blowing through a mouthpiece.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Adam's "orthodox" Leadpipe exercise? Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I've read numerous TH Forum threads and looked at a number of videos and I'm just confused. The information doesn't necessarily conflict in concept, what the Leadpipe is. Rather, it varies greatly in application.

Some recommend playing only the F-ish tone with as much purity and center you can, to arpeggios encompassing the lowest to the highest note possible, to even removing other slides and exercising from there.

I am not seeking the “best” way of playing it or permutations of the exercise, rather the most orthodox exercise as taught by Adam, himself. What did he say originally: one pure tone, extensive variations, what?

Thank you.


One pure tone. Hold it as steady as possible, accelerating the air through the sound and blowing the embouchure into place. Volume, quality of attack (or breath attack), timbre, etc. all varied according to the needs of individual students. Advanced students might do the same on one or two harmonics above the fundamental, but 90% of us only did the fundamental.

DO NOT PLAY ANY NOTES THAT ARE NOT SLOTTED AS THE (out of tune) HARMONICS OF THE PIPE!!! Don't bend pitches or play anything except (on a regular Bach Bb pipe) concert Eb, and for advanced students F (a 9th above), and possibly (for EXTREMELY advanced students) the C above that. Playing notes between the natural slots mother nature gave us is practicing playing "out of phase" with the acoustics.

"Big breath. Easy does it."

8-10 long tones on the fundamental and you put the slide in. You're ready to go. The majority of what I see people doing on the internet is NOT at all how we do it. It is actually antithetical to how we do it, and potentially counterproductive. Quackery.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.

We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I was looking for. Thanks much!
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chrisroyal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.

We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us.


Do you ever blow the C trumpet pipe? Seems to help center the tone on C trumpet. I wonder if smaller pipe would help with smaller horns as well?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisroyal wrote:
PH wrote:
And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.

We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us.


Do you ever blow the C trumpet pipe? Seems to help center the tone on C trumpet. I wonder if smaller pipe would help with smaller horns as well?


I've often wanted to apply blowing the pipe to a full band setting, but haven't pulled the trigger for a number of reasons. I don't know how producting it would be for low brass and the idea of inner trombone slides waving around unprotected makes me squeamish.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I copy what Jerry does in this video:


Link


What Rashawn says about the leadpipe in this clip (Sound Off segment) is excellent. "that reedy sound" this link should start rougly at the right part:


Link

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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting watching Jery Hey trying to find the sweet spot.

Also, can one assume Rashawn's talking about the 190 37 and 43 series Bachs?
Reference to Leadpipe buzzing is at almost the very end of the atch. interview.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
That's interesting watching Jery Hey trying to find the sweet spot.

Also, can one assume Rashawn's talking about the 190 37 and 43 series Bachs?

I believe so

Reference to Leadpipe buzzing is at almost the very end of the atch. interview.

If you click the above video it should start at the correct segment - I was careful to make sure it did so that people would get to the relevant info in a timely manner.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPNoJfrWlec
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Anthony Miller
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but they would both be a Bb trumpet/cornet's F.

But it really doesn't matter, since the note is being produced without the horn.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony Miller wrote:
Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also?

-------------------------------------
When playing on just the mouthpiece & leadpipe - with the main tuning slide disconnected -

The pitch of the note depends on the length of of the leadpipe - if the leadpipes are of the same length, then the pitch would be about the same.

But my understanding is that the actual pitch is not an important issue, and there should not be any attempt to manipulate the pitch to match a particular note's frequency.

The goal of the leadpipe exercise is to learn to produce a good resonant SOUND - regardless of the precise pitch of the sound. And perhaps to be able to produce good sounding intervals of that resonant sound.

It is just a coincidence that the pitch on leadpipe is approximately Eb.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony Miller wrote:
Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also?


The pitch is dependent on the length of the tube. Just like a pipe organ
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Anthony Miller wrote:
Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also?

-------------------------------------
When playing on just the mouthpiece & leadpipe - with the main tuning slide disconnected -

The pitch of the note depends on the length of of the leadpipe - if the leadpipes are of the same length, then the pitch would be about the same.

But my understanding is that the actual pitch is not an important issue, and there should not be any attempt to manipulate the pitch to match a particular note's frequency.

The goal of the leadpipe exercise is to learn to produce a good resonant SOUND - regardless of the precise pitch of the sound. And perhaps to be able to produce good sounding intervals of that resonant sound.

It is just a coincidence that the pitch on leadpipe is approximately Eb.


The most resonant sound occurs when the lips are allowed to vibrate at the same frequency of the standing wave.
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Anthony Miller
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - so it would be the same note on cornet as the length of tube is the same as trumpet I believe.

Billy B wrote:
Anthony Miller wrote:
Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also?


The pitch is dependent on the length of the tube. Just like a pipe organ
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But don't overlook the most important point - finding the most freely resonant place at approximately a Concert Eb.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
But don't overlook the most important point - finding the most freely resonant place at approximately a Concert Eb.


I can only speak for myself. Adam had me play a concert Eb in every lesson.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's assuming that the Leadpipe used for the exercise is attached to a standard trumpet. If the player is exercising on a detached Leadpipe, it's, perhaps, slightly different in length and so will be the "core" pitch.

Not intending to nit-pick, just to clarify my use of te word approximately .
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