Flugelhorn Transposition

FRobertson · Regular Member Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 31 Location: US

I play trumpet and flugel (surprised, right?) and my dad plays French horn. duets between the two are not very common and the ones we have found are very..... not good. I am playing on a 4-valved silver plated Getzen (it is the high school's) and I had a theory that I thought should work. If I put down the third valve, I should be able to change the horn from Bb to F, right? It works on the partials (only 4th valve), but on any other note it is off by a half step. Is this actually a correct theory, or was I just hoping for it to happen?

(currently I'm just transposing the duets down a fourth in my head; I was wanting a way to get around doing that)
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benlewis · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject:

If your dad has a double horn, he could play in Bb...

Actually, that is a valuable transposition to have in your trick bag and isn't that bad....

lh · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject:

4th valve down will drop your pitch by a perfect 4th, same as 1-3 would. That should allow a Bb flugelhorn to play in F with the french horn. Press 4th valve down permanently with your left index finger, and finger the flugelhorn with the right hand as though it was a normal 3-valve instrument. The 4th slide may need some adjustment to optimise your intonation. No guarantees there, but the concept should work. Don't forget to adjust the other slides to accommodate the longer "open" tube.
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FRobertson · Regular Member Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 31 Location: US

lh wrote

AJCarter · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject:

Pressing down the 4th valve typically is used to extend the lower range or correct intonation. I've had to play French Horn books for some shows. The transposition you are looking for is a perfect fourth DOWN and could, as Benlewis suggested earlier, be useful.

just practice slowly and you'll get it.
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Matthew Anklan · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject:

Great topic! I've seen a VERY high profile brass quintet that had a great flugelhorn player subbing for the regular french horn player. He sounded great and read the book down off the F-Horn parts. Better to be ready for a call like that than not

Getchell book, here I come, reading a 4th down!
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TrumpetMD · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject:

FRobertson · Regular Member Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 31 Location: US

What other keys would be good to transpose from (aside from C and F)?
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benlewis · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject:

Well, I just did "Elijah"; it had trumpet in A, Bb, C, D, Eb, and E. That should keep you busy for a while!

In all seriousness, starting transposition early in your career will make you a better musician and player. One of the easiest ways is to get a Clarke Technical Studies book and work the first three exercises for a while; then practice them in all 12 keys while reading only the part written in C.

I actually learned transposition backwards; in that I bought an Eb trumpet, but the quintet I played in only had music with Bb parts. So I used the same transposition that you're using to read horn parts: down a fourth and add one sharp. I have also had to cover horn parts in quintet, as well as a performance of "Judas Maccabaeus" because there was no hornist available who felt comfortable with the high Gs...

Trumpet1943 · Regular Member Joined: 03 Jan 2002 Posts: 25

Over a long period of time and in a variety of situations I have used two transpositions with the flugelhorn, to 'cover' Horn and Trombone parts;
For me 'thinking' UP (first) seems easier, because of learning to transpose C, D, Eflat etc from the Bflat trumpet . . . so Horn in F: Up a Fifth/ Add one Sharp and Down the Octave as appropriate . . . Trombone: Read the Bass (F) Clef and Up a Major Second/Whole Step Add two Sharps (C Trumpet Transposition). I used easy Horn and Trombone etude books (playing along with students initially).
The ability to 'cover' these parts has been positive ($$).
All the best! Dan

Trumpet_Martinez · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:39 pm Post subject: Transposition

Here's one of my "tricks" as a senior trumpet player major, who spent the first two and a half years of college as a Horn major. If you care to take the time and sit down with a double horn, learn the Bb side fingerings.

If you use trigger fingerings from horn on trumpet when reading Horn music you will be able to play the duets without much thought. You're reading range on the low end will be limited to low B (your low F#)

It's also invaluable to know transposition, and I'm thankful for the knowledge I got from studying horn. Find your "anchor" notes when reading Horn music ie. The Horns F will be your C, C will be your G, and a lot of notes will have the same fingerings.

There are a lot smarter people on forums that can help, but I hope this is helpful in a way.
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