Flugelhorns playing flat with receivers fully in

Colini · Regular Member Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 11

Hi all
I am need of some advice.
I am a comeback player and now in about 5 years. I play 1st trumpet in wind band, 3rd trumpet in a big band and was playing 2nd on cornet with a traditional British brass band. A few months ago I was given the coveted position of flugel in the brass band.

My kick start into playing again was being bought a flugel and I love it. 50% of my practice time is on flugel - about an hour a day.

The problem is that I play slightly flat and the three flugels I have at the moment (I only own one) have the receivers fully in so no way to sharpen. It is doing my head in. I have 3 mouthpieces and the result is the same.

I have a competition coming up soon and I cannot ask the whole band to flatten! Anyway that would not work as we have a glockenspiel and xylophone.

The 3 models
Yamaha YFH 631
Benge Custom with no model type
King 500 student model

The Yamaha gives me the sound I want.

Any suggestions welcome. I am looking to buy a professional model.

Kind regards
Colin

Brassnose · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 am Post subject:

Do you have the correct mouthpiece shank?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:56 am Post subject:

What mouthpieces are you playing?

zaferis · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:07 am Post subject:

I trust you're using a Flugel mouthpiece, it is one with the correct shank, and there have been no modifications to it? And that everything esle is in proper working order.

Then it sounds like time for a few lessons with a solid teacher (take your Flugel with you).

Do you play flat on your trumpet?
Could be you're trying to over play the instrument, or make it sound even more flugel-like by manipulation your oral cavity somehow (dropping the tongue, jaw and/or lifting your soft pallet) .. just guesses without seeing/hearing you play.

I'd stick with the Yamaha 631 (if the valves work ok)... solid sound and not a lot of time needed to adjust to.. IMO Benge's have a great sound but for some reason you have to stay fresh with them to keep the feel. You can't pick it up after several days and feel comfortable on it.

Find a pro teacher
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Colini · Regular Member Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 11

Using Denis Wick flugel mouthpiece.

Brassnose · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:23 am Post subject:

OK, first: I really don’t like Wick mouthpieces so take it with a grain of salt … I have found that, especially if using a deep Wick, the intonation can go south if you are not an experienced player. Some pieces are just very deep and this requires quite some effort to be in tune.

Moreover, there is still the shank issue: are you sure that your shank is the correct one? I think the Yamaha and the American shank are quite close, but the Yam shank is slightly smaller and will insert further. I think Wick makes pieces with both shanks and they are easily mixed up.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

nltrumpet · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:26 am Post subject:

All I know is that Wick makes two types of flugel pieces. Examples would be the 4F and the 4FL. The difference being their shank/taper. It’s possible that one of these is a proper fit, and the other is not.

TrumpetMD · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:44 am Post subject:

Colini · Regular Member Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 11

Thank you folks.
I have couple of pros who are a little puzzled.
I do not have problem with trumpet or cornet.
I use Wedge mouthpiece with trumpet and cornet with same top. I also have 2 depths of wedge for flugel with the same top. I have same issue.

I am very close to being in tune.

Interesting comment about Yamaha valves. 1st fails occassionally. It needs a lot oil - nearly everytime I use it.
Thanks again.

Richard III · Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 am Post subject:

Just curious. Are you playing in the center of the notes? If you do bends and find the resonant center, it is still flat?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

Rod Haney · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937

Point of curiosity. Are you saying you are a bit flat when using a tuner or when playing with others.
Rod

Colini · Regular Member Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 11

Thank you for more suggestions.

I will experiment more with bends. I do them a lot with trumpet.

I have noticed most when using tuner. At band it is not so noticeable but 2nd line G and 3rd space C tend to be slightly flat.

I'm getting the feeling that is me rather than the instrument.

Seeing a flugel pro at end of month.

Thanks again for advice and responses.

Colin

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6180

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:03 am Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:44 am Post subject:

It is going to help if you engage in some logical thinking. The first is about instruments - you seem to have it right. If you are flat on ALL three, then it’s not the instrument.

Same goes for the mouthpiece. If changing between a few does nothing noticeable, then you need to look at the next step…

But. Also check whatever you spare using to pitch. Is the tuner calibrated properly? If it is, then the problem is you.

My thought is this is a habitual issue that you are not aware of. Go to a great teacher, not just any one, and certainly move out of the brass band word to do so. Look for a renowned ‘chop doc’ for assistance.

Cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

Norseman · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:58 am Post subject:

A few years ago l got a new flugelhorn. Used it a year but always had to lip it up with the receiver all in. At last l took it to the store asking if they could shorten it a bit because l was always flat. The tech tried it and experienced the same. They gave me a new horn and the problem disappeared. Just saying.
All the best from
Norseman

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2595

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:52 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:07 pm Post subject:

When I started on flugel (and again on picc) my pitch center was way off. It resulted in having my tuning slide way out of the typical position and all sorts of wonky interval tuning. When my teacher noticed he had me put the slide into a more typical position and to work on realigning my chops and my ears. I did this both playing unisons with him and also with a tuner. It took a while but now everything lines up just fine.
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