• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Grunting and Valsalva maneuver



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LyonLover
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Aug 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject: Grunting and Valsalva maneuver Reply with quote

recently my teacher pointed out that i use the valsalva maneuver and grunt a lot. Especially during lip slurs. Sometimes it not on the way up, but on the way down. I try to not do it but it's seemingly impossible not to.

Any tips?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
starkadder
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 542

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This exercise teaches you how to open your throat and what that feels like:

https://www.deniswickapp.com/buzz/c/0/i/24388677/practical-aid-beautiful-sound

Any practice mute will work, and even getting a straight mute to rattle will have the same effect.


Playing with ear plugs can help you build awareness when you're closing off your throat and making the sound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dayton
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 1991
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

French Horn player Steph Smith gave a really interesting talk on the Valsalva Maneuver at the ITG Conference last year. She has some has some great resources on this topic:
http://beatvm.com/

She also has videos on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrknuliz899Fjyaf59jyow/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2310
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen and heard that ultimately there can be a number of reasons that this begins/happens. Resistance, Back pressure, breathing, clentching (diaphragm specifically), then habit & confidence.

One has to do with fighting the lack of resistance from the instrument.. try practicing with a cup mute (give it a fair amount of time) and see if this relieves the issue. And this may give you a reason why.
Then it becomes a confidence thing, you have doubts that the slur won't happen without a nudge, so you nudge it. Back up and work on slurs that you can execute without this happening - with a small almost inaudible crescendo before the slur and move at a moderate tempo (too slow will cause stagnation, too fast will mask proper sluring) Louis Davidson's "Trumpet Techniques" an outstanding text for this an other "issues" as well as an awesome approach to the trumpet.

I have and issue with grunting to "kick" notes at times.. I found that learning how to engage it, helps me stop it.. If I can make it happen on demand, I can then turn it off.. my simple exercise - while holding a long tone, add the grunt/growl in a slow rhythmical manner: on, off, on, off, on, off..
Identify the move, control it, don't do it.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Edwardsrk
New Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to second Steph Smith's beatVM as previously mentioned. I dealt with a hesitation that through talking with her I discovered was part of the valsalva maneuver. It was basically like my tongue froze when I went to articulate and I couldn't get a note out without breath attack. I had the same issues with grunting with my slurs too.

Going through her exercises over the past 2 months has been extremely transformative for my playing. I relearned how to breathe, how to articulate, how to release the air into the instrument as opposed to blow, and it addressed tension in your tongue and throat as well as posture(pelvis position especially).

I can't emphasize enough how much she has saved my career through her exercises, but I would definitely reach out to her before this tension eventually turns into something worse.

Best of luck, you will get through this!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ex-lax
_________________
Bill Bergren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jaw04
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 898
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Grunting and Valsalva maneuver Reply with quote

LyonLover wrote:
recently my teacher pointed out that i use the valsalva maneuver and grunt a lot. Especially during lip slurs. Sometimes it not on the way up, but on the way down. I try to not do it but it's seemingly impossible not to.

Any tips?
I have a student that started doing this. I struggled with helping him stop this grunting habit. Habits can creep in quickly and take a while to erase. Keep at it.
I myself did this when I was in middle or high school as well. You just have to relax your upper body (chest, neck, throat, shoulders) and get the release of air down to a correct, natural, function. It should be a relaxed sensation without clenching. Instead of creating resistance in your throat, use the resistance of the mouthpiece and horn, use the resistance of your chops and tongue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sing everything you play.
_________________
Bill Bergren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard GREAT players do this. I myself have heard it during some parts of my playing career.

I think it's a result of the tired ol "suck and blow" trumpet pedagogy that pervades so much of trumpet instruction these days. I'm not sure there's anything anyone can tell you, other than find a teacher who perhaps has a different approach.
_________________
www.mikesailors.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group