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New-ish Valve Oil & Slide Gel from Bach



 
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:51 am    Post subject: New-ish Valve Oil & Slide Gel from Bach Reply with quote

Trpt Hive -- I know that there is a varitey of oils, some very good and a couple that I prefer, but I just found a bottle of Bach's Synthetic Slide Gel. A partner of their new-ish Synthetic Valve Oil.

I'm not really high on instrument manufaturers lubes as I feel that they're just generic formulas repackaged for them. I thought worth trying out.

So far so good. Quick and long lasting oil and the gel (a bit thick) stays put and seems to last as long. My complaint, so far, is that the gel is a bit hard to squeze out of the bottle. I'd put it between 5 Starr's Lube All Gold and Ultra-Pure's Heavy Slide Grease. Thicker than Bach & Conn's Tuning Slide Grease - the red stuff.

As an istructor, I like to have a list of various products that work well and others like and for various applications. Things to recommend and to stay away from...

I guess I'm just looking for others experience.
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JWG
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether used for jet engines, car engines, or trumpets, synthetic oils have proven themselves superior.

Amsoil developed some of the first synthetic oils for jet engines that operated under never-before-experienced temperature extremes yet needed to remain viscous. By filtering out impurities and by "sorting" the oil molecules by length, synthetic lubricant manufacturers have enabled the "jet age," the "space age," and beyond.

For example, modern internal combustion engines no longer require oil changes by miles traveled or hours run, because, depending on the engine condition, primary filtering systems, and secondary by-pass filtering systems present, synthetic oils can last for 10x as long as traditional oils and get changed only when a quick oil analysis test indicates the need.

So, the traditional wisdom of oiling our valves before each playing session does not apply with modern synthetic oils, because those oils do not quickly evaporate or breakdown. Like with modern engines, we need to evaluate when to oil our valves based on the condition of the oil, which becomes a function of the condition of the valves, the temperature extremes, the days in service, impurities in the oil from piston and cylinder wear, and the chemical variables of the condensation in the horn (e.g., acidity or pH, sugar/starch/bacteria, etc.).

That said, you cannot go wrong with Hetmans, UltraPure, or Monster Oils. I use oils from all three of these manufacturers, and their synthetic oils last a long time and work great.

Of particular note, Monster Oil's new Eco-pro 100% plant-based valve oil works amazing well. I suspect that they used the same synthetic filtering and processing techniques used to process petroleum-based oils on plant-based oil. Kudos to them, especially if they can eventually bring us to a less toxic and less hazardous valve oil standard.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't, yet, another valve oil redundant and just another marketing ploy? Is there any added value to using Bach oil over Hetman of B.E.R.P., etc?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Isn't, yet, another valve oil redundant and just another marketing ploy? Is there any added value to using Bach oil over Hetman of B.E.R.P., etc?

As Yamaha has their own line of synthetic oils, that probably sell fairly well, Bach probably felt left out as their branded oil was rebranded Holton which itself was a solid product from 1972 (if not earlier).

Maybe they were annoyed that their Bach artists were all using other oils.

But, yes, it's probably redundant. Of course, no one is obliged to buy it.

There's nothing wrong with having another oil on the market if it's good. I don't know if it fills any actual needs for the public, but I don't think it does any harm.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the same Holton oil that smelled as kerosene?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Is that the same Holton oil that smelled as kerosene?

LOL. etc, throughout my Jr. H.S and Sr. H.S. years, I used a mix of kerosine and 3 in 1 oil. Not only my horn but my case stunk to high heaven.
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Aspeyrer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Is that the same Holton oil that smelled as kerosene?


Very likely, many non synthetic oils are kerosene with additives.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Is that the same Holton oil that smelled as kerosene?

I'm pretty sure.
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Notlem
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: New-ish Valve Oil & Slide Gel from Bach Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
My complaint, so far, is that the gel is a bit hard to squeze out of the bottle.


Funny, I had one hell of a time getting the gel out too... then I opened the cap to find out there was a cover I had to take out. That did not help much. you have to turn it upside down and wait, when you can see it, then you can squeeze the charmin and a dab comes out. Wonder why they don't sell these with a pump action or just a brush. I seriously had to use the GI Joe kung fu grip.

As far as the valve oil...

A bottle of Bach synthetic valve oil came with my new 190237 select model.

Inside the case next to it was this:

Quote:
IMPORTANT NOTICE

Vales and slides on this Conn-Selmer brass instrument have been slightly pre-lubricated with synthetic product prior to shipping.

Before first use, we recommend applying value oil and slide grease to ensure optimal playability.

Please note that mixing synthetic and petroleum-bases oils may cause valves to stick. Therefore, we recommend using synthetic lubricants on this instrument


NON PRO COMEBACK PLAYER TIP: For those changing from synthetic to petroleum or back... clean your vales and casings first!

It also says to clean vales daily for the first 3 weeks of use to remove microscopic bits of metal that result from breaking in the valves...

The break-in process for me has been pretty horrid. Best to follow instruction and actually wash the valves before I start for the day. If they lock up, try to just add oil, or wipe then oil if bad, on full lockup, wash valves then oil.

Don't get me wrong, its getting way better but I bought this on 3/12/2022, even took a 4 day vacation without it... so in about 10 days, I have been though half a bottle of this synthetic valve oil!

The good part is that when these valves are freshly oiled, they are lighting fast.

The jury for me on this particular oil will have to wait a couple more weeks till this break-in period is over. I did order two more bottles and will follow up.
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