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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:19 pm Post subject: Back on the Wild Side |
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I switched to Wild Things about 12 years ago. While no horn works for every player, the WT solved a couple issues for me and worked great. About two years ago I switched to Flip's new horn called the Inspiration. It's a heavier version of the WT with a slightly tighter leadpipe. It also plays very well for me.
Around that time I started with Bob Odneal's Casual DHC warmup and approach to playing. Then the covid lockdowns came and I didn't get to play with a big band--or any group for a while. That lasted a year and a half.
The reason I switched to the Inspiration was because I was hoping it might help me get through the two-hour no rest dance gigs on lead I was playing. At the time I thought it might have helped. The limitation was my upper range maybe wasn't as good, but I rarely had to play even a High G (4 ledger lines).
The big band I am in now is more of a feature band, and I am sharing the lead. We got out Jazz Police, and I get to play lead on it. I was doing okay on the Inspiration, but I thought I'd give the Wild Thing another try. This particular WT, in Flip's words, has a "lot of wallop." So I got it back out.
The Inspiration has now become by backup and the WT my primary. They both have the same scale, but the WT is bigger in the upper range. It's a little easier to soar over the band--amateur bands are always loud--and it has more punch. Of course, none of that is new info for the WT.
I am not having any endurance issues, even when repeatedly rehearsing shout sections. I think that is less the horn and more how I have internalized Bob Odneal's approach to playing, and I am being WAY smarter about how I practice as I work up difficult and high parts.
As we all know, Flip is out of business because Kanstul closed and he lost his horn builder. I think that is unfortunate. While I don't think any one horn works well for more than say 15% of trumpet players, not having the WT is a big loss. I am always hopeful that Flip or someone can get the blueprints and start making WTs again. In the meantime, I am glad I have mine. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Last night, I took my Wild Thing to the first spring semester rehearsal of Mesa Community College's Community Concert Band. It is the first time I have been a part of a true concert band since my senior year in high school, some 44 years ago. I'm in no great shape, chops-wise, but it was fun and the right kind of challenge to get back playing again. We perform on the 1st of March.
I have only sampled the Inspiration on a couple of occasions. If your horn is the one I've heard about, it is the best of them. I think there are only five in existence. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Somebody with more expertise than I have should crowdfund a run of WT. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Shawnino wrote: | Somebody with more expertise than I have should crowdfund a run of WT. |
Technically possible, but financially challenging - and very long term to realize a recovery of investment.
The tooling exists at BAC, and the capability to produce a horn similar to a Wild Thing certainly does as well. However, for a shop like that to not lose money, the minimum batch size would have to be pretty big. We're not talking a handful - more like a few dozen or more to reach that economic tip-point where viable end item price and set-up/overhead/scheduling cost intersect.
There is a boutique maker who has replicated the bell mandrel for another well-known model out there. I long ago PM'd Flip (and Brian suggesting he encourage Flip) with the idea of licensing that maker.
Perhaps that maker might be willing to make bells if someone wanted to combine them with an off the shelf Bach 43 leadpipe clone and a Carol lightweight complete block. That would leave only the tuning slide fabrication and assembly, which most any repair tech can handle.
None of these would be exactly the same as a Wild Thing, but you could come close and with effort, refine to something pretty special. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:03 am Post subject: |
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"Don't it always seem to go..." _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:21 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | Last night, I took my Wild Thing to the first spring semester rehearsal of Mesa Community College's Community Concert Band. It is the first time I have been a part of a true concert band since my senior year in high school, some 44 years ago. I'm in no great shape, chops-wise, but it was fun and the right kind of challenge to get back playing again. We perform on the 1st of March.
I have only sampled the Inspiration on a couple of occasions. If your horn is the one I've heard about, it is the best of them. I think there are only five in existence. |
My Inspiration is the prototype. I like it a lot. From what I understand, it is Arturo's vision and refinement of the Wild Thing. The nice thing is the ability to switch back and forth without any major adjustment. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:26 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Shawnino wrote: | Somebody with more expertise than I have should crowdfund a run of WT. |
Technically possible, but financially challenging - and very long term to realize a recovery of investment.
The tooling exists at BAC, and the capability to produce a horn similar to a Wild Thing certainly does as well. However, for a shop like that to not lose money, the minimum batch size would have to be pretty big. We're not talking a handful - more like a few dozen or more to reach that economic tip-point where viable end item price and set-up/overhead/scheduling cost intersect.
There is a boutique maker who has replicated the bell mandrel for another well-known model out there. I long ago PM'd Flip (and Brian suggesting he encourage Flip) with the idea of licensing that maker.
Perhaps that maker might be willing to make bells if someone wanted to combine them with an off the shelf Bach 43 leadpipe clone and a Carol lightweight complete block. That would leave only the tuning slide fabrication and assembly, which most any repair tech can handle.
None of these would be exactly the same as a Wild Thing, but you could come close and with effort, refine to something pretty special. |
Maybe a larger horn maker could just buy the tooling and add them to their line? Getzen or Adams? _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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INTJ wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Shawnino wrote: | Somebody with more expertise than I have should crowdfund a run of WT. |
Technically possible, but financially challenging - and very long term to realize a recovery of investment.
The tooling exists at BAC, and the capability to produce a horn similar to a Wild Thing certainly does as well. However, for a shop like that to not lose money, the minimum batch size would have to be pretty big. We're not talking a handful - more like a few dozen or more to reach that economic tip-point where viable end item price and set-up/overhead/scheduling cost intersect.
There is a boutique maker who has replicated the bell mandrel for another well-known model out there. I long ago PM'd Flip (and Brian suggesting he encourage Flip) with the idea of licensing that maker.
Perhaps that maker might be willing to make bells if someone wanted to combine them with an off the shelf Bach 43 leadpipe clone and a Carol lightweight complete block. That would leave only the tuning slide fabrication and assembly, which most any repair tech can handle.
None of these would be exactly the same as a Wild Thing, but you could come close and with effort, refine to something pretty special. |
Maybe a larger horn maker could just buy the tooling and add them to their line? Getzen or Adams? |
Anyone can simply buy a Wild Thing and disassemble it to find out the dimensions and how it is all put together. That is what Elden Benge did with Besson horns to design his trumpet. That is why Flip (and others) don't divulge anything that isn't readily obvious.
The problem is always market demand. There just isn't much of it, especially for the Wild Thing. To make the effort, there should be sufficient demand to pay off in the end. Before Kanstul shut down, Flip was struggling to keep his working capital and Kanstul was having trouble finding sales. Anyone trying to "fill the demand" for a Wild Thing should have more than a dozen interested parties that will actually pay $5000.00 for a premium trumpet. I mean one that sits just outside the "normal" mainstream. Not the mystical, magical wonder horns from Seattle or Colorado. Are there really that many players who will find the Wild Thing a good enough advantage to pony up the Benjamins? Flip says no, there's not. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Brian has hit the nail on the head. If anything, he underestimates the number of reliable sales one should have before attempting. It's sad, but that is why so many legends are legends of the past. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Good points. Trumpet playing is mainly in the realm of high school and college students. The pro market is small as well. Few students and not enough pros have enough money for a premium horn. That leaves the market for premium trumpets being mainly among hobby players.
There is a lot of money in the hobby market. Guys don't bat an eye about spending $10k on a hunting rifle, $20-50k on a fishing boat, and I am sure good good clubs aren't cheap either. Not to mention hobby cars, RVs, and airplanes.
However, trumpet isn't a good hobby. I can go a month without shooting and still be in top form. Same with flying. I miss one day on trumpet and I regress.
So when we consider a premium trumpet, we are only talking 15% of the few hobbyists who are dedicated to spending 6-7 days a week on the horn and have enough funds to buy one.
I guess the Wild Thing will go the way of the Martin Committee. No longer made but in high demand to a very small group of players. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Brian has hit the nail on the head. If anything, he underestimates the number of reliable sales one should have before attempting. It's sad, but that is why so many legends are legends of the past. |
Correction:
"...more than just a dozen..."
BAM! _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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