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A Long Journey to Beginning to Learn TCE


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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject: A Long Journey to Beginning to Learn TCE Reply with quote

I have been attempting a comeback to cornet/trumpet for 7 years now and am still struggling to play above the staff, and I know I am using too much mouthpiece pressure. I had been languishing as a 3rd cornet in my concert band.

So, I tried switching to a bass trumpet with a short shank trombone mouthpiece, but *surprise-surprise* that did not solve my range limitations.

I booked one lesson with Mr. Callet in 2016 when I was passing through NY, and I was like a deer in the headlights. I was in awe of being in his Staten Island studio, and played like my middle school days, LOL. I felt overwhelmed with how I could implement the radical changes and still play the concert band repertoire that we were performing, so I did not discipline myself to practice the TCE approach.

However, a few weeks ago, while listening to music from my phone on the shuffle setting, the recording I made of my 2016 lesson with Mr. Callet randomly played through my car stereo, and I listened with appreciation for everything he was teaching me that day.

So I have a new intention of really trying to understand and practice the Master Super Chops method of TCE. I am really hopeful that with a new commitment to practice and learn to spit buzz properly, that I will begin to find a centered tone and develop some range.

Two equipment-related questions that I am wondering about, as I prepare to book lessons with TCE successors in 2022 are:

1. What are your opinions on the effectiveness of learning TCE on a shepherds crook cornet versus learning it on a trumpet ? Does a cornet have more resistance which might not be as ideal for a learning TCE?
[BTW...the 1931 Conn 2B I own does not have great compression, so I really do not own a trumpet that is usable and I would need to purchase or rent one]

2. I purchased a Superchops 4 cornet mouthpiece from Jerry in 2016. For those of you who have played his different mouthpieces, would I likely do better learning TCE on the SC1SS mouthpiece or is the Superchops 4 similar enough to get the proper "Stop Signal" for improper TCE technique ?

Thanks for any advice from you experienced Master Super Chops adherents !
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: A Long Journey to Beginning to Learn TCE Reply with quote

Vega-Lux wrote:
... I felt overwhelmed with how I could implement the radical changes and still play the concert band repertoire that we were performing, so I did not discipline myself to practice the TCE approach.


What I meant was:
I felt overwhelmed with the question of how WOULD I be able to implement the radical changes, while I needed to play the concert band parts for the upcoming series of concerts ?
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Callet talk about things in terms of
1) This is how things need to be (e.g. embouchure position, etc.)
and
2) This is how to make those things happen (the method to achieve #1)

If #1 is part of the method, then having a good understanding of when you 'have it' (or not) is important.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerome Callet taught that we can understand when we "have it" by the sound being full and centered, in tune, and easily achieved without too much blowing.

I am not there yet.

I will be seeking guidance through lessons on how to create the proper embouchure position, but I want to make sure that my mouthpiece and instrument choices will be the optimal combination to make TCE success more likely.

Can anyone who has tried both the SC1ss mouthpiece and the Superchops 3 or 4 mouthpieces compare them relative to the description that was used with the SC1ss:

"Both were specifically designed by Jerry to help players struggling with chop problems. Both are small and unforgiving so they work like a bold ‘stop signal’ to close down as soon as your proper embouchure starts to lose its grip. By keeping you centered, these mouthpieces immediately increase power, pitch, range, and endurance. Plus, chop problems are immediately identified and avoided!"

I am wondering if the Superchops 4 would give the same type of "Stop Signal" ?
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vega-Lux wrote:

"Both were specifically designed by Jerry to help players struggling with chop problems...


BTW -- "Both" is referring to the SC1ss mouthpiece and the SC1sb, which was a little shallower.
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tptguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you learn to both feel and hear a well focused, centered, powerful, and dead centered pitch you can reasonably approximate it on a garden hose. However, as most trumpeters have proven through the decades, the combination is hard to hit. A cornet, with its less focused and centered sound, is a much more difficult training tool than a good trumpet like a Callet Sima or Callet NY Soloist. In the same way, a 1S is a much easier tool for hearing that sound and feeling the dialed tongue position than even a very good mouthpiece like an SC4. I have no need to spend your hard earned money. But for me, a 1S was near magic, overwhelmingly worth the investment. (For the record, I have no stake in Callet mouthpieces.)
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Kyle for your very helpful reply, which is exactly the kind of information/confirmation I was hoping for !

I will plan on purchasing a SC1ss mouthpiece for a trumpet, and then go on a search for a resonant trumpet to practice upon. I actually was already dreaming about owning a Kanstul-made Callet Sima trumpet, and maybe in the next month or so, I will find a way to do so
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had contacted Jim New and he got right back to me but said that Ralph Salamone is handling the sales of these Superchops mouthpieces.

I was able to order a SC1sb mouthpiece from Ralph a couple of days ago. He said that the mouthpiece purchase includes a complementary Superchops lesson with him, and I'll be booking that soon, after I receive the mouthpiece and begin familiarizing myself with it.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:55 am    Post subject: Spit Buzz School Reply with quote

I will be having my first lesson with Ralph Salamone this evening over Skype and hopefully will begin to understand how to form the proper structured relationship between the tongue and lips, to achieve the full vibrational spit buzz.

So far, my spit buzz attempts have been fairly weak, and I am not having much success marrying it to the SC1sb mouthpiece.

However, I realize that I am in MSC elementary school right now and I need to be patient. I'll share an update after my lesson, and after I do some spit buzz homework practice.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject: Hindsight is 20/20 Reply with quote

A couple of interesting things have happened in the past few days.

I was looking for a box within a box, from my move 2 years ago, which had silver polish and a horn cleaning snake. I found both of those items, and in the box was a scrap of paper that I had forgotten. Someone, a number of years ago had written out on a piece of scrap paper, the words: "True Power Trumpet" and Ralph Salamone's name on it. I have forgotten who gave me that scrap paper, and at the time it was given to me, I meant to look him up, but forgot to do so. But there it was, uncovered within 24 hours of my taking a lesson with Ralph

Ralph ran through the basics of the lip grip and spit buzz with me, and I have been practicing it a little each day in my driving commutes, and at night after dinner. My spit buzz is getting a little stronger, so I will keep at it.

The day after my lesson with Ralph, I listened to Timofei Dokshizer’s “Russian Miniatures” on my car stereo as I drove into work. I paused my the Music on my phone, it so that I could resume listening where I left off, on the way home.
<fast forward>>>
When I started my car up at 6 pm to head home, I expected to hear Dokshizer’s trumpet through the speakers, but instead, somehow, the voice of Jerome Callet came on my stereo from the recording of the one lesson I had with him in 2016 !

It sure felt like a sign that the Superchops method is where my focus should be right now.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just purchased a copy of Trumpet Secrets on eBay, and it is supposed to arrive this coming weekend.

I have continued to practice my spit-buzzing every day, and the volume of the spit buzz is getting a little louder with a clear vibration between my tongue and lips, but I cannot seem to get the notes of the spit buzz to ascend very high.

As I have been working solely with the SC1sb mouthpiece, I can get a decent tone on the notes of the basic B-Flat concert scale, but then the notes cut off at the C or D inside the staff. I am finding that frequently my mouthpiece placement has been too high, as my upper lip is bottoming out inside the SC1sb. This mouthpiece is consistently showing me how wrong my mouthpiece placement has been for too many years.

When I bring the mouthpiece vertically lower, it does not feel like it is sitting in a natural placement. But maybe I just don't know what that is supposed to feel like ?

In the TCE approach, should the throat of the mouthpiece line up vertically with the line between the lips ?
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vega-Lux wrote:
...In the TCE approach, should the throat of the mouthpiece line up vertically with the line between the lips ?

What I mean to ask is--

Should the throat of the mouthpiece be aligned, on a vertical axis, with the buzzing air that is coming between the lips ?
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of the questions you're asking are more related to general 'fundamentals' of playing, rather than to specifics of Callet.

This thread is in the Callet section, and comments about non-Callet teaching and methods are not usually discussed here.

If you are determined to follow the Callet TCE / spit buzz method, then this thread is fine.

If you want more general info about playing fundamentals, then create or add a comment to a thread in the FUNDAMENTALS section.

edit: my general view is that pretty much all successful trumpet players use very similar 'basic embouchure functions' - FUNDAMENTALS.
The various instructors and methods have their own way of tweaking and teaching those basics - but they don't stray too far away from fundamentals.
And the most basic fundamentals are:
1) lips have to be ABLE to vibrate at the desired pitch when there is air flow.
2) player has to be able to create the necessary internal air pressure to result in air flow.
Achieving those basics is a skill, and there are techniques that need to be used.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
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PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please let me state unequivocally here and now:

I am completely committed to Jerome Callet's methods.

I do have fundamental questions that relate specifically to understanding how to properly develop the Master Super Chops TCE approach to playing, and that is why I post them in this forum, and i will appreciate anyone's suggestions as they feel inspired to share them.

Thank you !
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vega-Lux wrote:
What I mean to ask is--

Should the throat of the mouthpiece be aligned, on a vertical axis, with the buzzing air that is coming between the lips ?

While I am waiting to hear back from Ralph Salamone about scheduling a second lesson, this question remains on my mind.

I am aware that some trumpeters play with their mouthpiece a little more on the upper lip or a little more on the bottom lip, but it seems like the SC1sb mouthpiece only works when it is centered just so.

I keep experiencing notes cutting off when the mouthpiece sneaks more onto my upper lip and the upper lip hits the shallow cup and then "SPLATs".

Any advice on how to be more aware of the proper centered placement of the SC1sb on the lips, and how to keep it in the correct location, and not have it migrate upward ?
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Should the throat of the mouthpiece be aligned, on a vertical axis, with the buzzing air that is coming between the lips ?


Mr. Callet never addressed that issue with me, directly.

However, I asked him once about the angle of my horn being much more downward than the way he played. He said I did not need to change.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
Mr. Callet never addressed that issue with me, directly.

However, I asked him once about the angle of my horn being much more downward than the way he played. He said I did not need to change.


Gracias, Jerry, for sharing your relevant recollections of Mr. Callet's instructions.

As I continue to practice with the SC1sb mouthpiece, I have been doing a lot of experimenting with the angle of my horn, trying to listen to the tone as I make changes, and the angle seems to want to be quite downward too.
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
...A cornet, with its less focused and centered sound, is a much more difficult training tool than a good trumpet like a Callet Sima or Callet NY Soloist. In the same way, a 1S is a much easier tool for hearing that sound and feeling the dialed tongue position than even a very good mouthpiece like an SC4. I have no need to spend your hard earned money. But for me, a 1S was near magic, overwhelmingly worth the investment. (For the record, I have no stake in Callet mouthpieces.)


Well, Kyle, and Superchops friends, I am happy to report that I was able to purchase an expatriate Callet Sima trumpet that was living in Paris !

It is in really good condition with 100% of the silver plating intact, and in combination with the SC1sb mouthpiece, I can hear the potential of the innate tone which will hopefully reward diligent practice.

I feel blessed to be able have the ideal gear now for developing the TCE for brass playing !
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vega-Lux wrote:
...In the TCE approach, should the throat of the mouthpiece line up vertically with the line between the lips ?

Don Reinhardt taught students to slide the mouthpiece on the inner legs in order to line up the blow with the mouthpiece throat. He originally referred to this slide as a pivot. I think pivot is a more helpful term than slide, and actually helpful at a certain stage. Regardless, Jerry taught the opposite: never line them up. In my experience, lining them up is one of the worst things you can do. It immediately starts to blow your lips forward into the cup. As soon as you do that your endurance, range, and power are done. Even before you collapse you can readily hear a very unmusical drop in pitch, focus, and projection (power). I vividly remember the first time I started to resist the air. Jerry said with a very encouraging smile “This is the first time you’ve sounded like a pro.”

I’ve recently coined a cute quip that you might find helpful, “An open flow is a hole in the blow”. I’ve never discussed this directly with Jens Lindemann, but I think it’s akin to his statement that you can wrestle a trumpet to the ground, but you’ll never win.

Best to all, Kyle
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Vega-Lux
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
...Jerry taught the opposite: never line them up. In my experience, lining them up is one of the worst things you can do. It immediately starts to blow your lips forward into the cup. As soon as you do that your endurance, range, and power are done. Even before you collapse you can readily hear a very unmusical drop in pitch, focus, and projection (power).


Kyle, can you please elaborate further on this ?
I have Trumpet Secrets and the Superchops DVD, but I do not recall much specific direction about where the mouthpiece should be aligned relative to the lips and aperture.

I have been playing exclusively with the SC1sb mouthpiece, and am frequently experiencing my upper lip bottoming out in the shallow cup.

I realize this is the kind of thing to work with a teacher upon, and I am going to have regular bi-monthly lessons with Ralph Salamone starting in March. But if you can add any more information, I'll appreciate it. Thank you.
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