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A Bb Trumpet that feels like a C


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Vince.Green
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree that the Yamaha Chicago 9335CHS Bb might best fit the bill for what you are after.

I was searching for something similar lately. I've been playing a Bach Philly C and wanted to try to come as close as possible for my Bb. I finally went ahead with a long planned experiment to mount the same Philly C bell (229 with the french bead) on my Bach 37 Bb.

The result was actually really successful from both a sound and feel standpoint...very centered and brilliant. What I learned however was that since I primarily use my Bb for warming up and daily fundamentals (and sparingly for performing), I missed the roominess and more open slotting and things just began to feel stiff after my daily sessions. I ended up remounting my original bell.

I don't know how often you perform on Bb vs C but this might be something to consider in the big picture.
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nelsonraymond
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schilke B3. I believe it's a large bore with a #3 (med?) bell. Big. Brilliant. Projection. Very responsive, and with a lot of output for the input effort. Much like a C trumpet. Wish I had one, but I'm running outta space for more trumpets, and my emergency contact person gets a bit, you know, jealous or some kinda feelings about all the trumpets.

I've been pairing a Schilke B5 with the S22CHD. Still matching the mouthpiece. 1C 24/24 corp on the S22CHD and a 1C 24/10 corp. on the B5.

Another option for a big fantastic Bb with a lot of projection is a Bach large bore with a 25 bell. Love those things, but don't see a lot of them these days.

/r
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nelsonraymond wrote:
Schilke B3. I believe it's a large bore with a #3 (med?) bell. Big. Brilliant. Projection. Very responsive, and with a lot of output for the input effort. Much like a C trumpet. Wish I had one, but I'm running outta space for more trumpets, and my emergency contact person gets a bit, you know, jealous or some kinda feelings about all the trumpets.

Interesting.

I like the B3, it's probably my favorite Schilke Bb - along with the B1 (maybe a bit better than the B1), but I don't feel like it's a C trumpet at all.

But, I could be wrong and also I'm sure people have different perceptions of C trumpets than me as well.
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nelsonraymond
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes, a B3 is not a C trumpet. Different blow and still a different sound. But lively and responsive trumpet , like a good C, with a great sound and projection that is just super fun to play (like a really good C). Wish I had one. But I'm mostly using a B5 alongside a '68 Bach 37 and a '56 Olds Mendez that I so much fun.

My trumpet delivery person (mail carrier) just brought me a beautiful Olds Recording that's got a big rich sound. Those early 60s Olds are just fantastic.

/r
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Color me crazy, but to me they are completely different instruments. This is almost like saying you want a C trumpet that plays like a D, or a pic that plays like a D/Eb - it's not going to happen because they are just different animals with different playing characteristics.

In the last year I bought my 2nd C trumpet (I sold the first one I had clear back in 1997) so that I could start playing in a regional orchestra - something I hadn't really don't much of.

I remarked to my friend (the Principal player who got me involved) how much more secure the C was to the Bb I'm playing, which by all regards is a really nice Bb. (See my signature line) He kinda laughed and said, "why do you think that I play all of our church gigs together on C, regardless of whether I have to transpose or not?" His Bb is a Yamaha Chicago, so it's no slouch of a horn either.

Someone further up the thread - I think it was kehaulani - said that the best answer is to adapt to both. I kind a see it that way too.
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nelsonraymond
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are quite different. At least, to trumpet players they are different.

My emergency contact person can barely tell the difference. But some of them are different colors so...

/r
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Color me crazy, but to me they are completely different instruments. This is almost like saying you want a C trumpet that plays like a D, or a pic that plays like a D/Eb - it's not going to happen because they are just different animals with different playing characteristics.

In the last year I bought my 2nd C trumpet (I sold the first one I had clear back in 1997) so that I could start playing in a regional orchestra - something I hadn't really don't much of.

I remarked to my friend (the Principal player who got me involved) how much more secure the C was to the Bb I'm playing, which by all regards is a really nice Bb. (See my signature line) He kinda laughed and said, "why do you think that I play all of our church gigs together on C, regardless of whether I have to transpose or not?" His Bb is a Yamaha Chicago, so it's no slouch of a horn either.

Someone further up the thread - I think it was kehaulani - said that the best answer is to adapt to both. I kind a see it that way too.


I think the reason they are usually very different is because they tend to be used by different folks for different jobs. Basically no one expects a C trumpet to work on a lead trumpet gig or for playing smokey jazz etc. Bb trumpets to me are really a 'jack of all trades' with some of them leaning more one way or another. There are more compromises involved I think.
A.C trumpet though is made to excel in a much less diverse set of situations. Same for Eb or Piccolo trumpet. So yes, they are different animals but I guess they just seem more different to me than I believe they either have to or should! (Also to me, an Eb trumpet feels much more like a C trumpet than a C trumpet feels like a Bb)

Incidentally, I discovered my Carol brass tuning slide from my old 4000H C Trumpet fits into my Bach 37. That actually more or less did what I wanted it to - firmed all the slots up etc It also made the blow a lot stuffier but I don't mind that so much. It's only a problem if I want to play loud and high. Actually, if I put on the rounded carol slide, that works pretty well for that too.
I actually think I need to check that the tuning slide my Bach has is the correct part and hasn't been replaced with something random. The Carol slide should be .460 and is the same shape as the Bach one, so it's kinda odd just how diffently the horn blows with it.
I think it's just the feeling of the slots more than the blow that bothers me.

Possibly what I'm thinking of as a C-esque Bb would be something like the Jupiter 1600i bit with a different bell?
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a Kanstul 1410?

http://www.kanstul.com/instruments/trumpets/1410-cbb-convertible-trumpet/

Yes, I know Kanstul is closed. And the 1410 is one of the last models they came out with, so there probably aren't many out there. But I seem to recall some discussion about its unique playing characteristics -- like a "chamber Bb."
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Shark01
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting topic. I want to go in the almost opposite direction. I have both Schilke S32HD in a Bb and S22HD in a C.

The C is how I expect a C to play, solid powerful sound with tight slotting, would cut through large groups....not a solo or small group trumpet. Even the intonation is good using a shorter mouthpiece.

The Bb tries to emulate that, but first it falls short of that, and 2nd I want a Bb with a more ringing sparkling sound with more colors available, looser slotting (but not wet noodle loose).

So while a Yamaha 9300 might solve the OP’s problem, sounds like it may be a bad fit for me.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a clear issue here. The OP has a C which plays well (for him) and a Bb which doesn’t.

Go hunting and try horns. Find a Bb you like. The is no hard and fast rule on what will work/blend, etc.

You can line up 20 Bach 37’s and have everything from unplayable to amazing. Depending on which one you pick, the reports will vary somewhat…

Cheers

Andy
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I was asking if anyone had suggestions for instruments that slot more like a C trumpet, which is to say that the slots are a little squarer, and that going from one slot to the next is a but snappier. That's probably the quality about my C trumpet that I appreciate. I can still bend notes without issue, but the horn gets between slots a bit easier, especially Noticeable on wider slurs.

If anyone has suggestions along these lines, just let me know!
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