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Rolf Svanoe
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Joined: 25 Jan 2022
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:20 pm    Post subject: Aging Lips Reply with quote

I am 67 years old and recently retired. I've been playing on and off for 50+ years. Recently my lips don't want to respond as well as they used to. My high notes and low notes are gone and the mid range doesn't sound as full anymore. this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups) or on the trumpet. I think there is some loss of collagen and lip elasticity. I'm also wondering if there is something besides practice that can help to correct this? Anyone else have a similar problem? Any ideas?
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you use any kind of lip balm before you practice/play? I must confess, at 70, I have tried many things short of voodoo to keep my chops moisturized in certain situations. After many trials, I have zeroed in on Carmex when I use a balm. It's mostly a winter thing in my case.

Many discussions regarding lip balms on TH!
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1012395
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1417859

Paste site:trumpetherald.com lip balms into your search engine, you'll get lots more:

Mike
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your lips do change as you age. That could be affecting your embouchure. Take lessons if you aren't already. Your teacher can help you figure out if any changes to your embouchure or mouthpiece might help address those changes.

I'll add that if you've been playing on-and-off for 50 years, and have recently begun playing a lot more, fatigue could also be an issue. You could try taking a day or two off, and then gradually ramping your practice back up. See if that helps.

Good luck!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you might share that with your doctor next time you pay him/her a visit, too.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JensenW
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps some of the advice forum members gave me about "morning lips" might be helpful.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups)


STOP buzzing as a warmup.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m also 67. The only thing wrong with my playing is my lack of concentration.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi fellow trumpet geriatrics,
I am 71 years old with Type 2 diabetes. I would suggest staying well hydrated. It is easy to become dry especially in the winter climes of Canada. I also think that if one has been playing for fifty years that we get too used to routines that have worked in the past. As our minds and bodies change perhaps the old familiar practice routines need to move along with us. As a younger man I buzzed my mouthpiece like a rabid mosquito. There came a point where it seemed to stiffen rather than loosen my chops. I have successfully lived without it since.
Certainly having 'leather lips" is unpleasant so hydrate, get an indoor humidier if your home is dry, moisturize your lips and face, limit your outdoor exposure and ask your doc if there is anything else to be done.
Good luck.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry do be doing this, but I'm 77 and I don't hydrate almost at all, and I have no physical problem with my lips. Which, I guess, is getting back to the Forum saying that what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all.

However, this is something you could look at and see if it works for you. If it does, that would be great. But if it doesn't, don't be discouraged into thinking that you're alone. Just look elsewhere and keep at it. And share it with your doctor.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard of people who for different reasons have trouble with continuing to play as they get older. Possibilities seem to be:
(1) something physical has changed (damage, effects of aging, etc.)
(2) you're doing less practice or the wrong practice (how do you sound on lyrical music you like?)
(3) something environmental is affecting you (low humidity, etc.).

If you can't get your mojo back on trumpet, some people move to another instrument. I'm middle age, but I am trying low brass because I find it to be really fun and I feel like it takes less work on the traditional trumpet louder/faster/higher spectrum. Some people with chops injuries move to bass trumpet or trombone (or euphonium or flugabone).
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, you can stop playing when you are 29 and don't start playing again until you are 79, which is what I did, and with all the changes of aging you just go back to basics and learn to play all over again.

The first change I had to make was the mouthpiece. I used a Bach New York 10.5C for the twelve years I played before quitting, but that no longer worked. I discovered that anything with a .640 to .650 " ID worked. Once I found the right mp everything started to come together quickly.
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rdpyle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Quote:
this happens when I'm buzzing the mouthpiece (Stamp Warmups)


STOP buzzing as a warmup.


There is nothing wrong with buzzing PROVIDED you are doing it correctly. ANY exercise can be played incorrectly, and be detrimental. It matters far more HOW you practice than WHAT you practice.

This all seems like something that should be discussed with your doctor and a good teacher, not strangers on the internet.

-Robin
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Sustained note
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why buzz if the moment you play the trumpet you completely change the way you produce the tone (hint: you do not buzz)?
Sure, many top players teach buzzing but I think it's because they were taught this way. It makes no sense to me.
Wait, got to put my helmet on...
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why buzz if the moment you play the trumpet you completely change the way you produce the tone (hint: you do not buzz)?
Sure, many top players teach buzzing but I think it's because they were taught this way. It makes no sense to me.


You will get no flak from me.

Just to point out, i wrote: Do not buzz as a WARMUP.

I think buzzing CAN be useful if done in limited amounts, at a particular time, and in a particular way.

It should rarely be used for warmup if everything is working well. And it should NEVER be introduced to beginners.


Last edited by kalijah on Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that buzzing is a useful tool for certain things but not really warming up nor do most players perform it properly or understand the point. As someone else pointed out, it is unlike what we do on the instrument when we play, so why practice something else?
Good players might buzz to refine a well executed process, undeveloped players doing it improperly gain nothing and without guidance can lead you down a confusing rabbit hole.

Everything we do has an impact on the chops. From the food we eat, what we drink and when, to weight gain or loss, physical condition, medical conditions, and mental state, So aging a big part of that. Chops change, consistent thoughtful practice is needed - which includes continued learning -> lessons with a knowledgable teacher.

I'm 62 and been performing for 40+ years, it still takes daily review to stay ontop of chops / technique.
Taking care of nature first - diet/hydration, sleep, exercise - to include skin care (chops) I've found ChopSaver to be very helpful all year, but especially in the winter.

take lessons, daily practice....
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:

I'm 62 and been performing for 40+ years, it still takes daily review to stay ontop of chops / technique.
Taking care of nature first - diet/hydration, sleep, exercise - to include skin care (chops) I've found ChopSaver to be very helpful all year, but especially in the winter.


+1

Mike
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gstump
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am 76. The lips and the muscles around the lips are just there waiting for air. Loss of lung capacity and power happens as we age. And it starts fairly early in the aging process. In my opinion my breathing system now has me topped out at D. Don't tell anybody.
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B935
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:08 pm    Post subject: aging lips Reply with quote

Yes. I went through this 4 years ago when I hit 70. Besides the lips becoming smaller and tighter your teeth can also shift and your jaw can become narrower and also protrude. I had studied with a chop doc in philly in 1967 and was analyzed from the neck up. I was given a set of rules of what I should do when I ascend and descend. Mainly becuse of my teeth shiting the rules changed. I made the adjustments to the rules and I got my chops back.

Best of luck,

Pete
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MalinTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:56 pm    Post subject: Aging Chops Reply with quote

I’m 73 and have been playing 63 years. For most of my life I had strong chops: I performed the Brandenburg as well as lots of other Baroque; performed 1st trumpet on Mahler #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Ein Heldenleiben, Pictures, The Planets…

I also had a beautiful sound with lots of depth. I usually warmed up for about 20 minutes.

Now it takes me about 40 minutes to warm up. Sometimes I have to work at just getting a vibration. 4 years ago I attended Malcolm McNab’s camp and started to do Stamp warmups every day. I still do them religiously.

A few weeks ago I switched from a 1 1/4 C with a 24 throat to a stock 5B. (Ironically, when I started studying with Vacchiano in 1966 he told me to play a 5B.)

A very important consideration for seniors: I take many medications and some of them affect the texture of my lips.

Lastly, I still practice everyday and love playing 3rd trumpet in our community band!
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Bethmike
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malin Trumpet wrote:
Quote:
Lastly, I still practice everyday and love playing 3rd trumpet in our community band!


Aging happens, giving up doesn't have to happen. You are enriching your life with music, and you are enriching the lives of the audience with music.

Keep on keepin' on!
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