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KTM - where on the tongue should it occur?



 
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ErikA
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Joined: 24 Jan 2022
Posts: 27
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:23 pm    Post subject: KTM - where on the tongue should it occur? Reply with quote

I’m trying to switch over to KTM as my default tonguing style and would like to get the views of Claude Gordon experts regarding the acceptable range of tongue position. Let me first summarize my understanding of what is not KTM to see if that’s correct then I’ll ask my question.

Tonguing with the tip of the tongue against the back of the front teeth (or through the upper & lower teeth) is not KTM. K-tonguing with the back of the tongue as when doing TK double tonguing is also not KTM. KTM occurs between those two extremes. Furthermore, anchor tonguing is not necessary in order to KTM. The tip of the tongue can float freely but generally (always?) stays below the top of the lower teeth.

As I practice KTM and think carefully about where my tongue is it seems that there is one major requirement. The tip of the tongue should be bent down toward the lower teeth so that only the flat of the tongue, and never the tip, strikes the roof of the mouth. But to my mind the “flat of the tongue” comprises the entire area from just behind the tip all the way back to where K-tonguing starts. Is that entire surface area available for KTM? I can do a type of KTM that is so close to the tip of the tongue that, although I’m using the flat of the tongue to strike the roof of the mouth, the tip is behind the upper teeth simply because there’s not enough distance for it to drop any lower. Is that an acceptable variety of KTM? Or should the striking surface be closer to the midpoint between the tip of the tongue and the area where K-tonguing starts?

Thanks,
Erik
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am by no means a CG expert, but I did have lessons from one for a few years. I think you are now overthinking things. Even though CG promotes concentrating on the tongue more so than the lips.
My understanding is that almost any tongue technique that doesn’t involve the tip of the tongue is the goal. The tip should be free to “roam” but should stay forward and close to the lower teeth. The contact point is then behind the tip, somewhere. The difference between this and a K tongue is very obvious as the K tongue is much further back towards the throat and an entirely different syllable.

Hope that helps.
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Jeff_Purtle
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Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 931
Location: Greenville, South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a short video I recently did about KTM.

Link


I think there might be too much analysis going on but it's worth being very clear. How far back on the tip is going to vary from player to player and according to your development just like K tonguing over time will move more forward as you develop speed and clarity. You don't want K too far back on your tongue either. That is some of the reason of using models and allowing time for the exercises to change your playing through a process.

Jeff
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ErikA
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Joined: 24 Jan 2022
Posts: 27
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jeff, that's useful. Sounds like many other skills. As you get better you adapt so that the movements become smaller yet also more precise and more efficient. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting off on the wrong foot.
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