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Circle of Fifths



 
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:06 am    Post subject: Circle of Fifths Reply with quote

Do you use it in your warm up and/or daily drills? How?
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do some major scales,
1 sharp
1 flat
2 sharp
2 flat
etc.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Jay. I'm doing more CO5 drills than ever. Trying to get sounds off the page and into my head.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know what happened o my post, but here goes again.
In warm-ups never a conscious use.
In playing & analyzing, all the time. A ii-V root movement is so much a part of traditional Western harmony, there must be a piece to your question I'm missing.
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a lot of !-IV-V arpeggios in warm-up. Melodically pleasant.
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tptptp
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think of it as "circle of fifths," but I'll often go through all 12 major scales. And, Arban #20 follows a circle of fifths (counterclockwise fourths). I play through that Arban exercise a lot. It's fun to vary the rhythms or do scales or arpeggios. I just make it up as I go, following the chord structure, which is better for my brain than reading it.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play all major scales regularly, but not as warm-ups. When you get my age
( 86 ) you can't afford to waste wear and tear on the chops if you are facing a tough practice or concert. My warmup ? A few expanding scales. The fewer the better.
George
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Don't know what happened o my post, but here goes again.
In warm-ups never a conscious use.
In playing & analyzing, all the time. A ii-V root movement is so much a part of traditional Western harmony, there must be a piece to your question I'm missing.


Don't understand. What's "conscious" use? Do you mean you just don't think about scales, degrees, etc.?
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just means that, while many exercises might have an underlying pattern based on root movement of a fifth, that is not the goal of playing those exercises. Their use of the cycle is not conscious.

That is contrasted with playing exercises like scales which run through the cycle of fifths and playing chord progressions that are intended to give you technical fluency when playing these cycles. In this respect this IS conscious, , until it's not.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it, thanks!
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Circle of Fifths Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
Do you use it in your warm up and/or daily drills? How?


Personally, I prefer to use the cycle of fourths, because I think of intervals as going up.

When I look at a standard II-V-I, I see the first chord (minor seventh chord) moving up a perfect fourth to the V chord (a dominant chord) moving up a perfect fourth to the I chord, a major chord.

When I look at an old standard like All The Things You Are, I see lots of up-a-fourth chord movement, and practicing the cycle of fourths helps orient my fingers and my ears to that chord movement. I see no up-a-fifth chord movement in that tune, nor do I see much of that in most jazz standards.

Those who have any of my books from the past few years have probably noticed that I have presented things in all keys using the cycle of fourths. I find that learning things by going through closely-related keys helps me to understand their structure better. In other words, play it in one key, then add one flat (or remove one sharp) and do it in the next key. I find that to be much more effective than trying to learn in all twelve keys by going up (or down) in half-steps.

By the way, my latest book, Trumpet Voodoo, presents everything in all twelve keys using the cycle of fourths and I don’t know about anybody else, but it sure helps me when I practice in all the keys daily.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just downloaded it, Rich. I see what you mean!
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Trumpjerele
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the chords move by semitones, I have a harder time following the changes, for example, in the standard, well you needn't.

Moving things around the circle of fourths or fifths seems easier to me. For example, the bridge of a rhythm changes, that's why in my routine I practice more the movement by tones or semitones.

I feel like it makes the brain and fingers work harder. I'm not making anything up, there's Clarke.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle of Fifths means the root movement to the tone down a Fifth.

Some people (I am one) find it easier to conceptualize the same chord root movement as a Cycle of Fourths, but when they do that, the root movement is up a Fourth.

If it's a Cycle of Fourths, it's a Fourth up. (C up to an F)
If it's a Cycle of Fifths, it's a Fifth down. (C down to F).

Same note names, but scoring/orchestration can be different
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JPHB
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should practice all jazz related licks, phrases, material: chromatically, whole tone, min 3, maj 3, cycle of 4ths, cycle of 5ths, and tri-tone sequence
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JPHB
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should practice all jazz related licks, phrases, material: chromatically, whole tone, min 3, maj 3, cycle of 4ths, cycle of 5ths, and tri-tone sequence
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
Just downloaded it, Rich. I see what you mean!


Followed your lead Jim! Thanks Rich! Couldn't wait until tomorrow morning to break the seal! Late night review in process!

Mike
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