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towawayzone Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2022 Posts: 24
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:54 am Post subject: Resources for jazz phrasing |
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Hello, I am working on my jazz phrasing and am wondering the best resources and methods for this (besides transcribing, I am already doing this). I have been using the heads in the Charlie Parker Omnibook and playing along with the recordings, but the improvisation isn't ideal for this and the melodies are quite short. I've been thinking about getting a Clifford Brown transcription book or a Erik Veldkamp "Jazz Articulation Big Book"
Any thought? Thanks... |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm afraid I'm not clear. You are already transcribing but you are going to buy another transcription book. I'm not dure what you're asking. Just for more transcription books? Jazz theory?
If it's jazz phrasing I'm not aware of anything better than what you are doing, maybe not deep enough? Finding common articulations and phrasing? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2192 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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it's not in any book _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ron is right. You gotta listen, listen, listen. Ideally pick a tune you like and listen closely to how it's played - and phrased - by different players from different eras. Then try to do it yourself. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 163 Location: Spain
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just learning. So I'll say what my improvisation teacher tells me: make up melodies!!
He tells us that we should practice creativity every day. Starting with the simplest. Yes, for the scale of C!! Sometimes just a few notes of the scale.
If we make weird faces, he shows us.
He uses three notes, and improvises for 2 minutes, rhythm, silences, dynamics, attacks, different octaves, but only three notes, and they seem more.
He can also add non-diatonic notes, but the important thing is not the number of notes he uses, but the phrases he builds with them.
They are exercises that any child can do, unfortunately music is not taught that way. And we reach adults with a very limited ability to improvise beautiful melodies. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 897 Location: California
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Resources for jazz phrasing |
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towawayzone wrote: | Hello, I am working on my jazz phrasing and am wondering the best resources and methods for this (besides transcribing, I am already doing this). I have been using the heads in the Charlie Parker Omnibook and playing along with the recordings, but the improvisation isn't ideal for this and the melodies are quite short. I've been thinking about getting a Clifford Brown transcription book or a Erik Veldkamp "Jazz Articulation Big Book"
Any thought? Thanks... | No dont get any books just keep listening and playing a lot. Try to spend time around other jazz musicians that you like how they play, either in lessons, jams, or hangs, and copy them. |
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kevinwoods Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 196 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Um... Records... _________________ Kevin Woods
Director of Jazz Studies
Western Washington University |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Just a reprise on not getting any books. The ears are first. Singing along to tunes and improvisations, essential. Listen, listen and listen. Jazz is an aural art. That's all correct. Sudhalter's Thinking in Jazz is a book and it has a wealth of information and, as a supplement to aural work, is a great resource. Nothing says you can't do both. Try it. You might find things you don't know. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Thu May 19, 2022 10:05 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2410 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I agree 100% with the suggestions to listen. However, it depends on where you're at. For example, if someone was illiterate, but wanted to be a novelist, we wouldn't tell him to just listen to Shakespeare. We'd tell him to first learn to read and write.
I'm not sure where the OP is at. But if he hasn't learned the fundamentals ("if he hasn't learned to read and write"), that's were I'd start. Find a good method, and learn. There are a number of good choices out there.
I used Aeberold, especially volumes 1, 2, and 3, which cover the fundamentals, the blues, and 2-5's. (Other important foundational volumes include volumes 21, 24, 42, 47, 57, 84, and 116.) Work through the books, don't just put on the recordings and play. This method covers nomenclature, scales, patterns, phrasing/melodies (the OP's initial question), tune learning, listening, etc.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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It's in the records of the great players and innovators. You don't learn how to properly pronounce languages from a book. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 897 Location: California
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Just a reprise on not getting any books. The ears are first. Singing along to tunes and improvisations, essential. Listen, listen and listen. Jazz is an aural art. That's all correct. Sudhalter's Thinking in Jazz is a book and it has a wealth of information and, as a supplement to aural work, is a great resource. Nothing says you can't do both. Try it. You might find things you don't know. |
Totally, literature, history, and creative writing are awesome gateways to getting into it also. Thinking in Jazz is a great book. So is the Birth of Bebop. Miles Davis Autobiography inspired me to check out a lot of musicians. I posit that reading method books or notated exercises is not the way to go. The act of reading notation while learning jazz phrasing is counterintuitive. Reading books and opening your mind however, is advised! |
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