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Resources for jazz phrasing



 
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towawayzone
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:54 am    Post subject: Resources for jazz phrasing Reply with quote

Hello, I am working on my jazz phrasing and am wondering the best resources and methods for this (besides transcribing, I am already doing this). I have been using the heads in the Charlie Parker Omnibook and playing along with the recordings, but the improvisation isn't ideal for this and the melodies are quite short. I've been thinking about getting a Clifford Brown transcription book or a Erik Veldkamp "Jazz Articulation Big Book"

Any thought? Thanks...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid I'm not clear. You are already transcribing but you are going to buy another transcription book. I'm not dure what you're asking. Just for more transcription books? Jazz theory?

If it's jazz phrasing I'm not aware of anything better than what you are doing, maybe not deep enough? Finding common articulations and phrasing?
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's not in any book
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron is right. You gotta listen, listen, listen. Ideally pick a tune you like and listen closely to how it's played - and phrased - by different players from different eras. Then try to do it yourself.
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Trumpjerele
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just learning. So I'll say what my improvisation teacher tells me: make up melodies!!

He tells us that we should practice creativity every day. Starting with the simplest. Yes, for the scale of C!! Sometimes just a few notes of the scale.

If we make weird faces, he shows us.

He uses three notes, and improvises for 2 minutes, rhythm, silences, dynamics, attacks, different octaves, but only three notes, and they seem more.

He can also add non-diatonic notes, but the important thing is not the number of notes he uses, but the phrases he builds with them.

They are exercises that any child can do, unfortunately music is not taught that way. And we reach adults with a very limited ability to improvise beautiful melodies.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you may benefit from Richard Sudhalter's Thinking in Jazz. There may be some sections on Jazz history you might want to defer to a later but some chapters right up your alley.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=thiinking+in+jazz&crid=2IUI84UJ0S99B&sprefix=thinking+in+jazz%2Caps%2C112&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Resources for jazz phrasing Reply with quote

towawayzone wrote:
Hello, I am working on my jazz phrasing and am wondering the best resources and methods for this (besides transcribing, I am already doing this). I have been using the heads in the Charlie Parker Omnibook and playing along with the recordings, but the improvisation isn't ideal for this and the melodies are quite short. I've been thinking about getting a Clifford Brown transcription book or a Erik Veldkamp "Jazz Articulation Big Book"

Any thought? Thanks...
No dont get any books just keep listening and playing a lot. Try to spend time around other jazz musicians that you like how they play, either in lessons, jams, or hangs, and copy them.
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kevinwoods
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um... Records...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a reprise on not getting any books. The ears are first. Singing along to tunes and improvisations, essential. Listen, listen and listen. Jazz is an aural art. That's all correct. Sudhalter's Thinking in Jazz is a book and it has a wealth of information and, as a supplement to aural work, is a great resource. Nothing says you can't do both. Try it. You might find things you don't know.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu May 19, 2022 10:05 am; edited 5 times in total
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ijazzmusic.com/blogs/ijazznews/melody-the-lost-art
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree 100% with the suggestions to listen. However, it depends on where you're at. For example, if someone was illiterate, but wanted to be a novelist, we wouldn't tell him to just listen to Shakespeare. We'd tell him to first learn to read and write.

I'm not sure where the OP is at. But if he hasn't learned the fundamentals ("if he hasn't learned to read and write"), that's were I'd start. Find a good method, and learn. There are a number of good choices out there.

I used Aeberold, especially volumes 1, 2, and 3, which cover the fundamentals, the blues, and 2-5's. (Other important foundational volumes include volumes 21, 24, 42, 47, 57, 84, and 116.) Work through the books, don't just put on the recordings and play. This method covers nomenclature, scales, patterns, phrasing/melodies (the OP's initial question), tune learning, listening, etc.

Mike
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Bill Ortiz
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's in the records of the great players and innovators. You don't learn how to properly pronounce languages from a book.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Just a reprise on not getting any books. The ears are first. Singing along to tunes and improvisations, essential. Listen, listen and listen. Jazz is an aural art. That's all correct. Sudhalter's Thinking in Jazz is a book and it has a wealth of information and, as a supplement to aural work, is a great resource. Nothing says you can't do both. Try it. You might find things you don't know.


Totally, literature, history, and creative writing are awesome gateways to getting into it also. Thinking in Jazz is a great book. So is the Birth of Bebop. Miles Davis Autobiography inspired me to check out a lot of musicians. I posit that reading method books or notated exercises is not the way to go. The act of reading notation while learning jazz phrasing is counterintuitive. Reading books and opening your mind however, is advised!
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