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nzjazz
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Joined: 27 Feb 2019
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Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: F/G trumpet vrs. Bb/A picc? |
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Hi all.
TTSS question:
Given the demands of playing the Messiah (chamber ensemble, meduim size choir 40-50, large cathedral) I'm interested in opinions of using Bb/A vrs. F/G trumpet for TTSS & The Hallelujah Chorus?
(I'm playing on a Bach 7E - 117)
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patdublc
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I typically do both of these on A picc. If I'm playing 2nd part on Hallelujah, I use D trumpet.
But, both sit nicely on G picc as well. So, I think if you are more comfortable on one horn vs. the other, then that is the horn to go with.
Personally, I play A picc several days per week but don't touch G picc nearly as frequently
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Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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Jon Kaplan
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:09 am Post subject: |
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As much as I love and use my G/F trumpet, a Yamaha 9710, I definitely think you should choose the Bb/A piccolo instead. It's just a more useful trumpet all around.
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tubbs831
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| I have a Schilke P5-4 and a Schilke G1L. I've only ever done Messiah on the piccolo. I did work up the Trumpet Shall Sound for a fellow student's recital on the G. For me, D major rep works better on the A piccolo. All those pieces in C however....the Vivaldi plays itself on a G piccolo. |
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Gottfried Reiche
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Always use the key of trumpet that puts it into the key of F. |
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nzjazz
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Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Gottfried Reiche wrote: | | Always use the key of trumpet that puts it into the key of F. |
Hi Gottfried.
Is that because Picc in A (playing in F major) will be darker than trumpet in G (playing in G Major)? Or are there other accoustical trumpet things going on here that I don't know about?? |
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Shark01
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| As long as it ends up in a playable key intonation wise, I would always pick an A piccolo (Schilke P7-4) over a F/G (Yamaha 9710). It is a more pure high trumpet sound for me. |
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nzjazz
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Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everybody đ
It's great to have international wisdom & experience to tap in to, as New Zealand feels a long way from the center of the music world.
It seems that the majority agree that whilst the Schilke F/G has its place in certain orchestral repertoire, Bb/A is more accepted for The Messiah. |
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Gottfried Reiche
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nzjazz wrote: | | Gottfried Reiche wrote: | | Always use the key of trumpet that puts it into the key of F. |
Hi Gottfried.
Is that because Picc in A (playing in F major) will be darker than trumpet in G (playing in G Major)? Or are there other accoustical trumpet things going on here that I don't know about?? |
It's a tongue-in cheek answer, sort of.
First of all, that's probably the easiest key to play in from a technique standpoint.
I hesitate to use the terms brighter or darker, but in general, the pitch will be mostly stable in that key. It may be negligible between those two keys on those two horns, but it could make a difference, especially if don't have a lot of experience playing high horns.
I should also point out that the modern piccolo trumpet sounds nothing like the natural trumpet that Handel wrote for. Actually, they sound even less like it than a larger B-flat or C trumpet. |
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Voltrane
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
may be a little off topic but why F/G TRUMPET versus Bb/A PICCOLO ?
I own a Selmer F/G and. Selmer A/Bb and for me they are both piccolo, no doubt.
Any technical reason for this difference in naming?
Thanks.
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Danbassin
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Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Voltrane wrote: | Hello,
may be a little off topic but why F/G TRUMPET versus Bb/A PICCOLO ?
I own a Selmer F/G and. Selmer A/Bb and for me they are both piccolo, no doubt.
Any technical reason for this difference in naming?
Thanks. |
Selmer's (Bb/A) piccolo and G (they call it a G/F because of the whole-step 4th valve, but unlike Schilke, Yamaha, and other instruments that can be played as a true G trumpet or true F trumpet, this isn't the same in this model) have the same bell taper, and are VERY similar instruments. With certain Yamaha G trumpets, and as an option on the Schilke, one can use the same bell flare as comes standard on piccolos from those firms, which has the advantage of giving a 'true' piccolo sound for blend purposes and soloist/conductor preferences. This comes at a cost, however, particular to the OP question - if both instruments play similar and sound the same, why use the (slightly) lower instrument at all?
I have a Schilke G1L-4 with the larger bell flare. It has its own voice, distinct from piccolo and other higher horns (Eb/D), which I find very useful. That said, it can also smoothly transition from small horn facility in baroque repertoire to 'cheater' stand-in work on challenging orchestral repertoire depending on mouthpiece selection and application.
Happy practicing!
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Voltrane
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Location: Paris (France)
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Ok!
Many thanks.
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Je mâempresse dâen rire de peur dâavoir Ă en pleurer (Beaumarchais) |
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trompette229
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Joined: 21 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Voltrane wrote: | Hello,
may be a little off topic but why F/G TRUMPET versus Bb/A PICCOLO ?
I own a Selmer F/G and. Selmer A/Bb and for me they are both piccolo, no doubt.
Any technical reason for this difference in naming?
Thanks. |
I think youâll find itâs referred to as both. The line seems to be at the F trumpet. So itâs often referred to as a âG piccoloâ but you wouldnât say âF piccoloâ so being a G/F horn itâs a little in no manâs land for naming purposes which is why itâs sometimes referred to as a picc and sometimes not. Handy instrument regardless of semantics. |
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dstpt
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:26 am Post subject: Re: F/G trumpet vrs. Bb/A picc? |
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| nzjazz wrote: | Hi all.
TTSS question:
Given the demands of playing the Messiah (chamber ensemble, meduim size choir 40-50, large cathedral) I'm interested in opinions of using Bb/A vrs. F/G trumpet for TTSS & The Hallelujah Chorus?
(I'm playing on a Bach 7E - 117) |
At glance I thought the question had to do with choosing to buy/own an F/G trumpet over an A/Bb piccolo. Now carefully reading the OP's question, I see it is very specific to "performing" these two mvts. from the Messiah. Duh. (No offense to other responses, which admittedly I've only perused.)
I have played TTSS on G tpt, and it worked. Some of my ornamentation was easier, some not as easy. I adjusted to using the G, though. I had a Scherzer A/Bb picc for years and was always bothered by the concert A above the staff (reading a C tpt part, or 4th harmonic open series C on the A picc) resting on the high side of the pitch. This note typically is sharp on a lot of A piccolo tpts that I've played. Ah, but then I discovered the Blachburn leadpipe, and that note seated just fine! During the interim, though, I looked for other options, including using my Schilke G1L-4, which I opted to use a few times on the Messiah. The two high D's (Hallelujah Chorus and Worthy is the Lamb) were a little more work, but who doesn't love an adventure every once in awhile.
So the main advantage for me at the time was getting the 5th of the scale (concert C above the staff) to be more manageable, and there are a ton of them in TTSS! I've played A picc on various Baroque pieces in large cathedrals, and while changing mpcs we all know can make a big difference, I always felt I had a lot of latitude with inst and mpc choice in those spaces. YMMV.
The G tpt offers many options for use, though. One of the best examples was pointed out by our Broadway brother-in-arms Tim Wendt in another thread some time back, when he shared how Rick Baptist used a 3v G on the Superman Returns theme!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VteXvRkPYCQ |
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