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Kingallen Regular Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 8:54 am Post subject: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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Hello everyone, my name is Allen. I’ve been selected as a lead trumpet player for my next marching season, and I was wondering what mouthpiece series I should shop from to get that “lead” sound. I currently use a Yamaha 16C4-gp, but it significantly cuts my range, so I’d like to get a second, different series mouthpiece. Unfortunately mouthpieces like the Bobby shew aren’t compatible, so I’d have to find something in between my 16c4 and that, but right now what I need is a series to look into. Please and thank you. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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Kingallen wrote: | Hello everyone, my name is Allen. I’ve been selected as a lead trumpet player for my next marching season, and I was wondering what mouthpiece series I should shop from to get that “lead” sound. I currently use a Yamaha 16C4-gp, but it significantly cuts my range, so I’d like to get a second, different series mouthpiece. Unfortunately mouthpieces like the Bobby shew aren’t compatible, so I’d have to find something in between my 16c4 and that, but right now what I need is a series to look into. Please and thank you. |
Why are you playing a piece that cuts your range? Sounds like it's too big for you.
What's incompatible with the Shew, and which Shew are you talking about?
The Yamaha Shew Jazz is in the range of the Yamaha 14B4, and while not exactly a lead-piece it may be more manageable than the 16C4. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8964 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Marching band? Loud? Tasteless? Yamaha 14A4a. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Kingallen Regular Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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cheiden wrote: | Kingallen wrote: | Hello everyone, my name is Allen. I’ve been selected as a lead trumpet player for my next marching season, and I was wondering what mouthpiece series I should shop from to get that “lead” sound. I currently use a Yamaha 16C4-gp, but it significantly cuts my range, so I’d like to get a second, different series mouthpiece. Unfortunately mouthpieces like the Bobby shew aren’t compatible, so I’d have to find something in between my 16c4 and that, but right now what I need is a series to look into. Please and thank you. |
Why are you playing a piece that cuts your range? Sounds like it's too big for you.
What's incompatible with the Shew, and which Shew are you talking about?
The Yamaha Shew Jazz is in the range of the Yamaha 14B4, and while not exactly a lead-piece it may be more manageable than the 16C4. |
Excuse me if I’m not doing this properly, I don’t use this website that often. To answer your questions, I find playing on mouthpieces too shallow such as the the Bobby shew “lead” mouthpiece doesn’t allow me to produce and sound at all. It may be due to my lip structure. And the reason I’m playing on a mouthpiece that cuts my range is because it’s concert season, and our band doesn’t play anything challenging range-wise for me. My range gets a little iffy at high D, because I didn’t practice it very much. |
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towawayzone Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2022 Posts: 24
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: |
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A slightly shallower cup will brighten the sound. If you are comfortable with your current piece but find you cant light it up enough, go with the Yamaha that's a step shallower. (Maybe a D cup?) |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2309 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Yammy 16B4. very similar rim, slightly shallower, and the regular (not GP) is a less open backbore - 16B4, 14B4 great all-around pieces.
I would stay away from the extremely shallow (14a4a's of the world) Firstly they are really mouthpieces for "specialists" too much loss of body, + pitch tendacies will be crazier outside. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1803 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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Kingallen wrote: | Unfortunately mouthpieces like the Bobby shew aren’t compatible. |
Do you mean the Shew "Lead"?
I was going to suggest something moderate such as the. Bach 3C, Yamaha 14B, Shew "Jazz", or something similar with a different cup shape and smaller entrance to the throat - Schilke 14B. If the Shew would work, you could also get the Kelly version for cold weather- if that's a problem in your area. Maybe add a mouthpiece weight to one of these for more projection - for sure with the plastic Kelly Shew model. |
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gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulation on the selection.
First things first, there are no miracle mouthpieces that will improve your range, however you can probably find one that makes what notes you have figured out a little easier to play.
The Bobby Shew Jazz as mentioned above would be a good place to start. The cup is the same size as a 3C and it seems to me the backbore is a little tighter and aids a little in producing high notes compared to a normal Bach 3C. Depending on where you live you might want to check out Kelly mouthpieces. They make the Bobby Shew Jazz in Lexan.
https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmbobbyshew/index.asp
Check out ebay. They come up for sale there all the time.
I would also look into purchasing a couple of the following method books if you dont already own them.
Clarke Technical Studies - must have
Irons 27 Groups of Exercises - must have
Pops McLaughlin's Arban (free on his website)
Augie Haas Build Your Range
Hickman Beyond the C
Gordon Systematic Approach to Daily Practice
Find a teacher to show you how to use these methods properly over the summer. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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A Yamaha D cup is a deeper one and the big Yamaha mouthpieces (15 up) are not produced with shallow(er) cups. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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Kingallen wrote: | Excuse me if I’m not doing this properly, I don’t use this website that often. To answer your questions, I find playing on mouthpieces too shallow such as the the Bobby shew “lead” mouthpiece doesn’t allow me to produce and sound at all. It may be due to my lip structure. And the reason I’m playing on a mouthpiece that cuts my range is because it’s concert season, and our band doesn’t play anything challenging range-wise for me. My range gets a little iffy at high D, because I didn’t practice it very much. |
You're doing this exactly right.
I'd also avoid extreme pieces like the Schilke 14A4a or the Yamaha Shew Lead. Some can pull it off but a lot more just think they can and probably shouldn't.
I may not fully understand you but concert season shouldn't require you to play a piece that hurts your range. I'd be surprised if you wouldn't get every bit as much sound out of a 14C4 (or Shew Jazz) but with less of a range hit. And again a 14B4 could brighten things up enough to make a difference. And to clarify, for Yamaha and Schilke a B cup would be shallower (brighter), and a D cup would be deeper (darker). If you were playing a Bach then going from a C cup to a D cup would be shallower. The lettering is reverse. I've known two players that favor a Bach 3D for higher or brighter playing. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Kingallen Regular Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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gwood66 wrote: | Congratulation on the selection.
First things first, there are no miracle mouthpieces that will improve your range, however you can probably find one that makes what notes you have figured out a little easier to play.
The Bobby Shew Jazz as mentioned above would be a good place to start. The cup is the same size as a 3C and it seems to me the backbore is a little tighter and aids a little in producing high notes compared to a normal Bach 3C. Depending on where you live you might want to check out Kelly mouthpieces. They make the Bobby Shew Jazz in Lexan.
https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmbobbyshew/index.asp
Check out ebay. They come up for sale there all the time.
I would also look into purchasing a couple of the following method books if you dont already own them.
Clarke Technical Studies - must have
Irons 27 Groups of Exercises - must have
Pops McLaughlin's Arban (free on his website)
Augie Haas Build Your Range
Hickman Beyond the C
Gordon Systematic Approach to Daily Practice
Find a teacher to show you how to use these methods properly over the
summer. |
Thank you so much for the method book recommendations, I was just about to ask about that. |
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Kingallen Regular Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | Yammy 16B4. very similar rim, slightly shallower, and the regular (not GP) is a less open backbore - 16B4, 14B4 great all-around pieces.
I would stay away from the extremely shallow (14a4a's of the world) Firstly they are really mouthpieces for "specialists" too much loss of body, + pitch tendacies will be crazier outside. |
Alright thank you so much, I believe I’ll follow your advice. I have a friend with the 14b4 and I’ll try his out to see if it fits me. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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As was previously mentioned, the largest stock Yamaha with a B cup I'm seeing is a 15B4. Size 16 doesn't seem to go shallower than a C cup. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2309 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | As was previously mentioned, the largest stock Yamaha with a B cup I'm seeing is a 15B4. Size 16 doesn't seem to go shallower than a C cup. |
I swear I've seen a 16B4, yet I don't see them listed anywhere. 15B4 the nearest thing.
14B4 is definitely a solid choice though. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2020 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Does it have to be a Yam mouthpiece? The most piercing/loudest mouthpieces I played were the GR SZ and GR MS. The SZ is shallow and super aggressive but has a nice presence and focus. The MS is a little deeper, but maintains the same brilliance and focus. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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wilder Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 341 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece series recommendations |
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Kingallen wrote: | Hello everyone, my name is Allen. I’ve been selected as a lead trumpet player for my next marching season, and I was wondering what mouthpiece series I should shop from to get that “lead” sound. I currently use a Yamaha 16C4-gp, but it significantly cuts my range, so I’d like to get a second, different series mouthpiece. Unfortunately mouthpieces like the Bobby shew aren’t compatible, so I’d have to find something in between my 16c4 and that, but right now what I need is a series to look into. Please and thank you. | Do what your teacher says. Don't have one? Get one. Or contact Mark Curry to get a well made mouthpiece with a rim that is similar to the one you play on but just a little shallower at a affordable price. Good luck! jw |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1719 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | cheiden wrote: | As was previously mentioned, the largest stock Yamaha with a B cup I'm seeing is a 15B4. Size 16 doesn't seem to go shallower than a C cup. |
I swear I've seen a 16B4, yet I don't see them listed anywhere. 15B4 the nearest thing.
14B4 is definitely a solid choice though. |
Could be Schilke you're thinking of? They do a shallower version of their 16c4 as a 16b4 model (rarely for Schilke, this actually is *just* a shallower version on the same rim and general cup shape, not a completely different piece). |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | Yammy 16B4. very similar rim, slightly shallower, and the regular (not GP) is a less open backbore - 16B4, 14B4 great all-around pieces.
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As far as I know all the Yamaha GP mouthpieces have the same specs as the standars versions, the same rims, the same cups, the same throats, the same backbores so they differ only in weight.
Bach made their megatones also with the same specs as the regular ones but they found it necessary to open the throat a little bit from #27 to #26 on the heavy ones. Other brands I don't know.
BTW All Yamaha trumpet mouthpieces seem to have the 'b' (semi-narrow) backbore except most (not all) of the 'A' cups which have the narrow 'a' bb, the E cupped ones which have the 'e' (wide) bb and the 7B4 and the 11 which have the 'c' (standard) bb. Yamaha seems to use their backbore numbering (and their rim numbering) quite at random. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2532 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:44 am Post subject: |
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IF you have a good dealer locally, I'd recommend getting a Bach 3d...they come standard with a 76 backbore. I have one that is very good. The other recommendation is a Schilke 15B. Both of these are good-sized mouthpieces, but not super shallow.
If you can find and try, a Hammond 5MB worked great with the drum corps I worked with a couple of years ago. I used them in my collegiate band the last couple of years for our trumpets and mellos.
Work for tone quality, then use slurs, expanding scales, and the like to add power and range. The suggestion for a good teacher is essential. I'd do that before buying any mouthpiece. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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garpo3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 08 May 2008 Posts: 160 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bach 3D is a super underrated piece (for anything). Great for marching band. Schilke 14B is fairly similar.
Something else no one has mentioned: slightly shallower mps like the ones above will help considerably with stamina. _________________ Conn Vintage One 1B46R-SP
B&S Challenger I 3137 |
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