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Which do you recommend for use to play with an organ in church to accompany congregational singing? |
Schilke S22CHD trumpet |
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50% |
[ 17 ] |
Schilke A2C cornet |
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50% |
[ 17 ] |
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Total Votes : 34 |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:25 am Post subject: |
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FatSebastian wrote: | Grits Burgh wrote: | I finally decided on what I wanted to do. I ordered a Getzen 3810 C Cornet. ... I stumbled across an irresistible offer on a brand new Getzen 3810 and I'm sure that I will like it. |
Congratulations on your decision! For those of us also looking for an "irresistible offer" on a new Getzen 3810, can you say from where you ordered? |
Check here: http://www.brookmays.com
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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snichols Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 586 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: |
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I'm really surprised by the amount of votes for cornet. Having played a number of church services, in a variety of church/organ sizes, a cornet will easily get buried by the combination of organ and congregants singing. Even a trumpet is easily buried by organ alone, if the organ is wide open and the trumpeter isn't playing with a healthy, robust sound. If you want to actually be heard (by the congregants), especially while the congregants are singing, go with trumpet. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2426
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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snichols wrote: | I'm really surprised by the amount of votes for cornet. Having played a number of church services, in a variety of church/organ sizes, a cornet will easily get buried by the combination of organ and congregants singing. Even a trumpet is easily buried by organ alone, if the organ is wide open and the trumpeter isn't playing with a healthy, robust sound. If you want to actually be heard (by the congregants), especially while the congregants are singing, go with trumpet. |
I agree.
There are also a lot of scriptural and liturgical references to "trumpet" - never seen any to cornet.
(I typically use a Bb though, not a C) _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: |
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snichols wrote: | I'm really surprised by the amount of votes for cornet. Having played a number of church services, in a variety of church/organ sizes, a cornet will easily get buried by the combination of organ and congregants singing. Even a trumpet is easily buried by organ alone, if the organ is wide open and the trumpeter isn't playing with a healthy, robust sound. If you want to actually be heard (by the congregants), especially while the congregants are singing, go with trumpet. |
Thanks for commenting.
You make a very good point. An organ plus a congregation combine to make a very loud volume. Getting a cornet to be heard may indeed be a problem. At any rate, it appears that you may have tipped the scales of the poll more towards the C trumpet.
That said, for most of my playing I will be using a Bb Bach Strad with a 3C mouthpiece. Most of the time, I have time to practice the music prior to playing and so can use the Bach. The cornet will come in handy, but I don't think that it will be my primary horn. My Bach Bb should be sufficient firepower, and at any rate, if it isn't, the limitation is more likely to be me than the hardware.
The reason that I went for the cornet is that typically, I play an entire verse (and sometimes the chorus as well) of a hymn as an introduction before the congregation joins in. I really like the lyrical sound of a cornet for the introduction and the organist lowers his volume to ensure a balanced sound. If if it turns out that I am struggling trying to be heard along with the congregation, perhaps I can switch to a shallower cup mouthpiece on the cornet to cut through a little better. I have a Curry 3 P mouthpiece that should be bright enough. Time will tell if that combination works.
Finally, when all is said and done, I really wanted a Getzen cornet. The model that I had been coveting was the 3850 Custom Bb. My original pipe dream was to get the Shilke cornet or trumpet in C plus the Getzen 3850 in Bb. But, for all the more playing that I do, it was difficult to justify the expense of two more horns (that is, it was difficult to justify the expense to my wife - to me it seemed perfectly reasonable ''). In the end, perhaps the Getzen 3810 C cornet will fill the need for a C instrument and at the same time satisfy my craving for a Getzen cornet.
If worse comes to worse, I suppose I will just have to bite the bullet and get a C trumpet and honestly, I can't say that having an excuse to buy another horn would at all upset me.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: C trumpet vs.C cornet for playing in church |
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It's a good situation to have then. Kind of win-win for you. Let us know what you decided after playing a few times! _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 714 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I've never played a Getzen 3810, or any predecessor model, but since you bought the horn cold... the information you have at the moment is that it's a modern high brass instrument, from a highly reputable manufacturer, who market it as meeting the needs of orchestral players. It's not a Victorian 'parlour' cornet! The speculation about not being able to be heard because it's nominally a cornet, not a trumpet, seems like the beginning of a self-fulfulling prophecy to me. IMO the best thing you can do when it arrives is have fun discovering what you can do with it. Equally, any instrument (trumpet or cornet) in a different key to what you're used to is going to work much better for you if you put in plenty of time on it, rather than pulling it out when circumstances force you to. I bet it's a really nice bit of kit - enjoy it
Mike |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: C trumpet vs.C cornet for playing in church |
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blbaumgarn wrote: | It's a good situation to have then. Kind of win-win for you. Let us know what you decided after playing a few times! |
Thanks for posting.
I'll make a point of following up on my experience. _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Prestage wrote: | I've never played a Getzen 3810, or any predecessor model, but since you bought the horn cold... the information you have at the moment is that it's a modern high brass instrument, from a highly reputable manufacturer, who market it as meeting the needs of orchestral players. It's not a Victorian 'parlour' cornet! The speculation about not being able to be heard because it's nominally a cornet, not a trumpet, seems like the beginning of a self-fulfulling prophecy to me. IMO the best thing you can do when it arrives is have fun discovering what you can do with it. Equally, any instrument (trumpet or cornet) in a different key to what you're used to is going to work much better for you if you put in plenty of time on it, rather than pulling it out when circumstances force you to. I bet it's a really nice bit of kit - enjoy it
Mike |
Mike, thanks for posting.
Obviously, nobody should buy a horn without first trying it. That said, trying out horns isn't all that easy to do if you don't live in New York City or near Trent Austin's shop. I decided to take my chances with a horn made by a company known for producing quality horns. I have taken a blind leap of faith with all of my horns and so far I have not had a bad experience (I can't imagine liking any horn more than I like my Schilke HC1). The King cornet is a bit stuffy (at least compared to the free-blowing Schilke), but I got it cheap and it is nice to have a horn to haul around that is "disposable."
Oh, and I love the expression, "nice bit of kit." That is not an expression you will hear in South Carolina.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Update.
I ordered a Getzen 3810 C Cornet and received it today. I haven't had a chance to perform with it yet, but my initial impression is, "Wow, I should have bought one of these years ago." It is very agile, sounds fantastic and is a lot of fun to play. It has a sweet tone, particularly above the staff. Obviously, the valves are brand new and not yet broken in, but they feel great right out of the box - really nice touch and very quick. I love everything about this horn (I might have to buy the Bb version as well).
I don't yet know if the cornet was the better choice for playing in church, but I think that it is going to work out very well. At any rate, it is a lot of fun to play. I think everybody should have one of these.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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a.kemp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 675 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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The Getzen C is nice. What do those go for new, these days? |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1272
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Grits Burgh wrote: | FatSebastian wrote: | Grits Burgh wrote: | I finally decided on what I wanted to do. I ordered a Getzen 3810 C Cornet. ... I stumbled across an irresistible offer on a brand new Getzen 3810 and I'm sure that I will like it. |
Congratulations on your decision! For those of us also looking for an "irresistible offer" on a new Getzen 3810, can you say from where you ordered? |
Check here: http://www.brookmays.com
Warm regards,
Grits |
Interesting thread, Grits. Congrats on the new horn purchase.
I tried to do a search for "Getzen 3810 C Cornet" on the Brook Mays' website, but I get no Getzen cornet results. Is there another search term we should use? |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 850 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:17 am Post subject: Re: C trumpet vs. C cornet for playing in church |
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Grits Burgh wrote: | blbaumgarn wrote: | If you haven't tried a C horn use your cornet or borrow one and transpose the next piece to see what you think. |
Your suggestion to try out my cornet first to get a sense of the cornet sound is a pretty good idea. However, my cornet doesn't have anything like a British/Shepherd's Crook cornet sound. I think that is primarily owing to the mouthpiece I use, a Curry 3P. I got the horn cheap to use to carry to New Orleans to play outdoors. The Curry mouthpiece produces an excellent sound for traditional jazz, but as for the traditional "sweet" cornet sound, ah, not so much. But perhaps an investment in a more traditional cornet mouthpiece might not be a bad idea. Curry makes some. |
I use a curry 2bbc with my King Super 20 silver sonic master and it gives me a darker sound. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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dstpt wrote: | Interesting thread, Grits. Congrats on the new horn purchase.
I tried to do a search for "Getzen 3810 C Cornet" on the Brook Mays' website, but I get no Getzen cornet results. Is there another search term we should use? |
I ordered my cornet quite a while ago, last April I think. There was some confusion with the original order but we finally got it sorted out. Back then, the cornet was going for about $1,900.00, which seemed to be a good price. Since then, Brooks May has changed their website; the Getzen cornets are no longer listed. Either they were inadvertently omitted from the website or they are no longer carried. You'd have to call them and ask what's going on. Either way, I suspect the price will be higher than what I paid.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2022 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK, reanimating an older thread, with a slight extension of the original question.
Background: I was asked to play trumpet/organ stuff in our local church. Yes! However: which instrument besides C trumpet would be suitable? Looking at all the literature/recorded music/… a lot of the players use the picc, some in Bb, some in A. I know this depends on the music, but generally speaking, what would you recommend for someone starting into the trumpet/organ world for the first time?
Currently I have neither a picc nor a C trumpet nor a C cornet at Home, so I’d be open to suggestions.
Or just stick with my Bb?
The church and the organ are relatively small, church may seat ca. 600, give or take a few. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1019 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'd stick with the Bb and either get music that's transposed for trumpet or learn to transpose for trumpet. I have a good C trumpet but have not played it a ton and found I sounded less in tune on C than on my Bb. Do you think you will mostly be playing out of hymnbooks? It's worth using and practicing the descants. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2022 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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At the moment we are just starting to talk, so details remain tbd. So far we have been looking at some classics like trumpet tune and the like, but also a few hymnals. We‘ll probably end up with a mixture of things including but not limited to hymnals. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1459 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought: the way you play your horn might be the significant factor!
I´ve played in church a lot of times, with my brass band, and solo at funerals.
Mostly I used the cornet (Getzen Eterna LB) trying to execute the psalms, hymns, tunes (Russian Folk Song, Wunderland bei Nacht (Kämpfert) as
dolce and singing as possible.
However at the funeral of a dear friend 5-6 years ago he asked me to play Fly as a Bird and Come Sunday, just 10 days before he passed away.
He was a genuine jazzman, having played a lot of traditional jazz as well as swing music in big bands (we played in the same one back in the day).
So - I thought that my old King Super 20 Symphony was the horn to salute him with; a lot of feelings, bluesy playing introduced by me "hear me playin to ya".
The audience became as touched as myself.
However if the request is something towards "hark, hear the angels sing" I might use my Eb/D flat trumpet, or even a C trumpet if I had one sailing over the organ.
Bottom line: taking part in the singing - then the cornet comes in handy:
What do you want to express? Might be cornet, or trumpet as in my example:
Adding to the organ executing some Bach/Handel/Purcell stuff: trumpet in various keys. _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Tue May 31, 2022 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | Currently I have neither a picc nor a C trumpet nor a C cornet at Home, so I’d be open to suggestions.
Or just stick with my Bb? |
I'd stick with the Bb. There's really nothing you can play in the C that you can't play on the Bb though certain trills could hang you up.
At some point you might have opportunity to employ a picc. I've done so on a number of tunes that I could have played on the Bb but using the picc was more secure and had a lighter sound. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2022 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone so far. The initial discussion was trumpet and organ and after hearing the organ a lot of times before, even though it is rather small, I’d agree and lean into the trumpet direction.
As I like to travel with minimum gear, maybe instead of taking a cornet (which I don’t own anyway) AND a trumpet, I have thought about a mute as well. To be honest, I am more of the quiet player and my playing has been mistaken for cornet and sometimes „almost flugel“ - getting out that brilliant sound is what I need to work on.
So maybe I’ll borrow a C and then compare to my Bb.
And yeah, as I wrote in another thread, a picc has been on my mind, but the current interest just came up a few days ago, so first things first, I guess. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2022 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | OK, reanimating an older thread, with a slight extension of the original question.
Background: I was asked to play trumpet/organ stuff in our local church. Yes! However: which instrument besides C trumpet would be suitable? Looking at all the literature/recorded music/… a lot of the players use the picc, some in Bb, some in A. I know this depends on the music, but generally speaking, what would you recommend for someone starting into the trumpet/organ world for the first time?
Currently I have neither a picc nor a C trumpet nor a C cornet at Home, so I’d be open to suggestions.
Or just stick with my Bb?
The church and the organ are relatively small, church may seat ca. 600, give or take a few. |
As always, the correct answer is the horn that you sound the best on for that literature. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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