• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Do I need a 4 valve flugelhorn?



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject: Do I need a 4 valve flugelhorn? Reply with quote

I have a Yamaha 631 that I bought new in 1976 and a 6310Z Bobby Shew flugelhorn. I’m looking at the Adams F4 4 valve flugelhorn. Do I need it? I’ll probably sell the 631 if I do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased my 4-valve Getzen Eterna back in the 1970s. I got a lot of use out of that 4th valve. I played a lot of Eb and F horn parts in brass ensembles with that 4th valve back in college. I've also use that valve as an intonation aid (as opposed to a 3rd valve trigger).

However, there are some things to consider. That 4th valve adds extra weight to the horn. And you have to consider whether you need to play into the pedal tone range.

Also, the extra range below F# comes with compromises (compare this to a non-compensating euphonium). Those low notes are notably sharp, and require some creativity to get in tune. See the following post for a discussion about fingerings.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1510530#1510530

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom LeCompte
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 3341
Location: Naperville, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start with a simple question. How often when you are playing do you thinkl "I wish I had a 4th valve"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GizB
Veteran Member


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a trumpeter asks if they need a new horn, the answer is always "Yes."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe".
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly if not completely classical. I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line. I’m not a big fan of the sound of the Getzen 4 valve. It lacks the core that my Yamahas have. It’s use would be tunes at church ceremonies, weddings and the like. Personal use would be Bach Cello Suites. (I kinda play them on Ophecleide and cello.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1272

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would strongly encourage the OP to keep one of the 3v flugels as mentioned; you will definitely find times when that sound will be preferred over a 4v as well as the lighter weight.

Last edited by dstpt on Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
I would strongly encourage the OP to keep one of the 3v flugels as mentioned; you will definitely find times when that sound will be preferred over a 4v as well as the lighter weight.

Just my personal opinion, but I agree.

I love my 4v Getzen, and there are still occasional times I want that 4th valve. But my main player nowadays is an Olds L-12. It's lighter and more nimble, while the Getzen has a bit more presence along with the extended range.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nltrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2019
Posts: 206
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Adams F4 is a good instrument. Strangely, the worst note below the staff is pedal C. While I think it plays better than any Getzen 4V’s I’ve tried in every other way, it’s just not a good note.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
spitvalve
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 2149
Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some food for thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rDNhVcurHY&t=374s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVBT32QKcM
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spitvalve wrote:
Here's some food for thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rDNhVcurHY&t=374s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVBT32QKcM
That helps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom LeCompte
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 3341
Location: Naperville, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SterlingBell wrote:
I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line.


That's a good answer - in that it explains what you are looking for.

Why not an alto horn? If you are using the 4th valve to play well under the staff, you're likely making your life a lot harder using a soprano voiced instrument than an alto voiced instrument.

Apart from fighting to keep the pitch from getting tubby, the intonation gets trickier and trickier the mroe valves are down.

My answer might be different if yours were "once in a while I need a low F".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom LeCompte wrote:
SterlingBell wrote:
I can get around the 4th valve by jumping octaves, but that kinda interrupts the melody line.


That's a good answer - in that it explains what you are looking for.

Why not an alto horn? If you are using the 4th valve to play well under the staff, you're likely making your life a lot harder using a soprano voiced instrument than an alto voiced instrument.

Apart from fighting to keep the pitch from getting tubby, the intonation gets trickier and trickier the mroe valves are down.

My answer might be different if yours were "once in a while I need a low F".
I do have a valve trombone and an Ophecleide. I’ve got three or four junk alto horns that make nice door stops.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cyber_shake
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 769

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe".


Ditto! Couldn’t agree more.
_________________
Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com

Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JoeLoeffler
Veteran Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2022 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you’re going to be playing in an ensemble and trying to cover some French horn parts the answer is “maybe“. If you were playing in an ensemble reading standard Flugelhorn/trumpet parts the answer is “no“.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2532
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you ever play "Pines of Rome". the flicorni parts in the 4th movement can all be played on a 4-valve flugelhorn. And, the parts were written for that instrument, so performing with flugels is the authentic performance instrument.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ancientram
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Feb 2019
Posts: 85
Location: Fairborn OH USA

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:59 am    Post subject: 4 valve Flugel Reply with quote

Years ago, I had a wonderful Getzen Eterna 4 valve flugel. Loved it. Used it for intonation and fingering convenience issues. I wouldn't hesitate.

Hope this helps,
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just bought an Adams F4. Time to put it through its paces.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 956
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyber_shake wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Just personal, but if it were only for Jazz, my answer would be "No".
If it was for "classical" applications, my answer is "Maybe".


Ditto! Couldn’t agree more.

Interesting…I’ve been contemplating adding a 4th valve to my trumpet to expand my range in jazz. Being able to play low as well as high would add a whole new dimension to improv I think.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SterlingBell
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Now I think of it as a soprano euphonium! The fourth valve puts it in that category. Fun!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group