Mouthpiece Receiver Bottoming Out

[Benson]

Hi Everyone,

I got a new private trumpet student yesterday, kid going into 9th grade. She's really excited to play, has a great sound, and thankfully, not a total mess that needs an embouchure rebuild. She told me that in pre-camp for marching band she launched her mouthpiece when she performed a horns down. I giggled and said, "That happens, you gotta give your mouthpiece a teacher and a push," like any trumpet player would say. That's when I discovered that her mouthpiece bottoms out in the mouthpiece receiver. She's playing a Faxx 7c, it's a Jupiter student model, and the mouthpiece freely spins when inserted.

She's going to need a student model for marching, and mom is already talking getting a better instrument. Do I recommend:

1. New student model
2. New leadpipe
3. Fix just the receiver (if possible)

Other concerns are, I know from personal experience that gap plays a part in flexibility, slots, sound, and so on. Does anybody have an inkling what a lack of a gap since 6th grade has done? Could it be detrimental? I mean, she sounds great, but I don't want to send her back too much. I've never seen a trumpet like this in 34 years...

Thoughts?
_________________
Benson

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello Benson,
The effects of her playing with no gap for 3-4 years is not a problem. I played a receiverless Olds Special for 4 years as a kid, and I did fine. As to fix, a repair of replacing the receiver or just getting a new leadpipe might be a question of cost. Depending on the repair tech, there might be a chance of cleaner solder work by replacing the leadpipe. My thinking is that the Jupiter receiver just rounded out over time, and a new Jupiter leadpipe would be a direct replacement....or maybe a specialty pipe Bach 25-O or 43...or??? She might be ready for a new mouthpiece anyway and maybe a new Bach or Schilke might have the shank that fits better than the Faxx. At any rate a gap of 1/8th inch works for me. Might get some repair costs to drive the direction if she wants to keep the Jupiter, for marching band.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[kehaulani]

Did you put your mouthpiece(s) in the horn and see if you get the same result?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[JoeLoeffler]

Remember that the problem could be with the horn or with the mouthpiece. Did you try a “known good“ mouthpiece in the receiver? It would certainly be the cheapest option to buy a new, quality mouthpiece.

If the problem is with the horn (and if the rest of it is in good condition) then it would be certainly possible to replace either just the receiver or the full leadpipe assembly. (Although to do the best job of replacing the receiver the whole leadpipe should probably be removed from the horn anyway so there might not be a whole lot of labor savings in that option…) If the horn is pretty beat up, it may be cheapest to buy something decent on the used market.

As to changing what the girl is used to… I think that if you don’t make too much of a big deal out of it she won’t either. A well made, “more standard“ set up will likely be much more efficient than what she has been playing. (If they go for replacing the lead pipe, choose something very middle of the road. Something like a standard configuration Bach 25-style pipe or even just a new Jupiter pipe.)

Definitely double-check wether the mouthpiece or the horn is the problem though…

[cheiden]

[huntman10]

Of course, if you are a bit handy, careful application of a file or grinding wheel could fix it for a while, or the small strip of paper around the shank tip.....
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[homebilly]

why not just have a tech heat up the receiver and pull it out 2mm?
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[JayKosta]

Some interesting info about how the mouthpiece receiver is designed, and how it is intended to be installed onto the leadpipe -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1655426#1655426

It appears to be more complicated than I had earlier thought!

Per the illustrations and discussion, the receiver is intended to be 'fully seated' onto the end of the leadpipe, and the gap is determined by the construction of the receiver.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[homebilly]

so my problem is that i think that my receiver isn't right in that my.mouthpiece doesn't go in far enough as compared to my other leadpipes

so i have been debating whether or nor to have it opened up
by a tech.
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[cheiden]

[JoeLoeffler]

[homebilly]

it's a new bach 7 leadpipe and it is way different than the bach 25
that i have. it just seems to be so short in insertion depth

i'm going to try an compare it to a few other bachs once i can get to a
shop that has the other horns

oh yes. i do have a whole set of sleeves but it doesn't solve my
problem with the mouthpiece that i use and won't modify
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[Divitt Trumpets]

[Benson]

Thank you so much, everybody. I've played Monette and AR mouthpieces for years now, so I don't have any traditional "Bach" style length gear hanging around my house. None of my mouthpieces hit bottom, and in a first lesson in a COVID world, I'm not exactly comfortable playing someone else's instrument. I'll swing into school and grab a spare Bach 7c and see if it's a mouthpiece issue. Also, I'll see what my local tech says. It's probably easier to just swap out the leadpipe than trying to fix just a receiver.

As for the gap issue, it's time to experiment with different horns, see what happens!

I appreciate everyone's input.
_________________
Benson

[Tony Scodwell]

Nobody mentioned the simplest and cheapest fix. Start with a layer of Scotch Magic tape around the shank to enlarge the gap with her play testing it. Usually one layer of tape increases the gap 1/8th inch. If she is happy with that approach simply cut the shank. It will not change a thing and move on.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

[homebilly]