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Breathing and Caruso Exercises



 
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Peter88hg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:59 am    Post subject: Breathing and Caruso Exercises Reply with quote

I started working on the Caruso last August / September, and wish I'd been aware of this approach to practice before now; the main reason is the need for better endurance. Having worked fairly slowly and steadily with MCFB (not quite at the pace of introducing new material suggested in the 'Getting Started' threads), there is real progress: I can play for longer without timing. However, this is with using a practice mute, which I understand is not ideal.

When doing certain exercises (harmonic series, SLS intervals) there is a build-up of pressure in lungs / upper body that doesn't feel right; the possible remedy is to not fill up the lungs so much, and generally play softer - except the SLS exercises demand something more strenuous, or at least more focused / controlled in terms of breath support. Possibly the answer is: 'don't use the practice mute'. But I'd welcome your thoughts - maybe something else is needed to address air support issues?
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On breathing:
One thing that may help is taking more than one measure of rest and breathing out fully during the first measure and then taking the breath in. As long as you keep time, horn on the face, etc. you're still getting the primary intention (IMO) for the exercises.

On the mute:
Ideally, you'd be practicing Caruso with the exact same setup as you perform with. Real life has its way though and so practicing with a mute in my experience is better than not practicing. If you have the financial means and space, I'd recommend getting one of various sound dampening setups, such as a mute tube, marcus bonna studio case, or you can build your own if you're sufficiently handy (I'm not).

Best of luck!
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Peter88hg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bagmangood wrote:
On breathing:
One thing that may help is taking more than one measure of rest and breathing out fully during the first measure and then taking the breath in. As long as you keep time, horn on the face, etc. you're still getting the primar


Thanks for that suggestion, will experiment - on further reflection, I think having engaged with CC is exposing already extant issues re breathing / breath support, and in particular the SLS / LSL exercises may go some way to helping resolve them, so there's more to explore, as well as finding a practice space to practice without the mute. [My neighbors say they like hearing me practice (un-muted), but for some reason I believe they're misguided....].
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter88hg wrote:

Thanks for that suggestion, will experiment - on further reflection, I think having engaged with CC is exposing already extant issues re breathing / breath support, and in particular the SLS / LSL exercises may go some way to helping resolve them, so there's more to explore, as well as finding a practice space to practice without the mute. [My neighbors say they like hearing me practice (un-muted), but for some reason I believe they're misguided....].


Haha!

Another concept that may help with breathing to experiment with is approaching it in the way that Marcus Stockhausen approaches the measure rest (as outlined in Basic Caruso).

Explicitly exhale on beats 1 and 2, and inhale for 3 and 4.
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PH
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bagmangood wrote:
Peter88hg wrote:

Thanks for that suggestion, will experiment - on further reflection, I think having engaged with CC is exposing already extant issues re breathing / breath support, and in particular the SLS / LSL exercises may go some way to helping resolve them, so there's more to explore, as well as finding a practice space to practice without the mute. [My neighbors say they like hearing me practice (un-muted), but for some reason I believe they're misguided....].


Haha!

Another concept that may help with breathing to experiment with is approaching it in the way that Marcus Stockhausen approaches the measure rest (as outlined in Basic Caruso).

Explicitly exhale on beats 1 and 2, and inhale for 3 and 4.


This is similar to what I often do. I exhale the stale air (through the nose) on beat 1 and then inhale on the remaining 3 beats.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Breathing and Caruso Exercises Reply with quote

Peter88hg wrote:
I started working on the Caruso last August / September, and wish I'd been aware of this approach to practice before now; the main reason is the need for better endurance. Having worked fairly slowly and steadily with MCFB (not quite at the pace of introducing new material suggested in the 'Getting Started' threads), there is real progress: I can play for longer without timing. However, this is with using a practice mute, which I understand is not ideal.

When doing certain exercises (harmonic series, SLS intervals) there is a build-up of pressure in lungs / upper body that doesn't feel right; the possible remedy is to not fill up the lungs so much, and generally play softer - except the SLS exercises demand something more strenuous, or at least more focused / controlled in terms of breath support. Possibly the answer is: 'don't use the practice mute'. But I'd welcome your thoughts - maybe something else is needed to address air support issues?
I am not an expert on Caruso but I find when I do Caruso exercises I get a lot of tension in my chops, as well as in the chest. It is a strenuous exercise. This seems like a bad thing to practice, however, the results seem to really work. I feel invigorated and strong afterward and playing feels easier. I think Caruso is not a great flow/breathing practice but is a great embouchure training practice.
I think it is okay to feel this build up of pressure, and try to minimize it to a reasonable degree, but understand that these exercises are more strenuous than regular playing. At least, that is my take but I'd like to hear if Caruso experts disagree.
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Peter88hg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for all your thoughts and responses - especially the advice to expel all air from the lungs during the 1 bar rests.

On experimenting without the practice mute, the main issue seems to be increased inter-cranial pressure, usually from g on the staff upwards; in SLS intervals, it's usually at its most extreme when playing the decrescendo in the 3rd whole note(s), and this possibly relates to taking in too much air for those higher notes / intervals.

Maybe this issue will resolve with more practice, and, greater strength and coordination of the embouchure.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As your embouchure achieves more balance and timing you do not need all that much air. It is not necessary to tank up and then have to expel so much.

I like to totally relax the body and kind of slump down on beats 1 and 2 of the rest. Then add air from this slumped down bottom position and things will rise up.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump
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chrisroyal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another approach I’ve been experimenting with is to reduce the number of rests in certain exercises.
The idea was from the concept that during rests, one should hold the embouchure as if still playing the previous note.

So the 6 notes, for me, is to play them straight through until I need a breath. Only then do the nose breath protocol. I’m at G, G#, A, breathe, Bb, B, C, breathe (repeat). Some days I can go longer before breathing, without strain. Kind of a hybrid of Clarke Studies, which get the long setting benefits by performing in one breath. I’m also doing this breathing for 2nds and other intervals and <> ><.
I still breath attack the beginning of each note pair.

There seems to be a momentum issue involved, from stopping to breathe so frequently. I’m finding that I can last longer on intervals by not stopping so often. Kind of like doing push-ups (with good form) straight until failure vs stopping to hold between each and every rep.

PH please share your thoughts about this approach. Thanks.
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Last edited by chrisroyal on Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always followed the Caruso 6 Notes to the letter and the exercise has been good to me. I see no reason to change. So if what you do works for you, that's great.

George
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PH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisroyal wrote:
Another approach I’ve been experimenting with is to reduce the number of rests in certain exercises.
The idea was from the concept that during rests, one should hold the embouchure as if still playing the previous note.

So the 6 notes, for me, is to play them straight through until I need a breath. Only then do the nose breath protocol. I’m at G, G#, A, breathe, Bb, B, C, breathe (repeat). Some days I can go longer before breathing, without strain. Kind of a hybrid of Clarke Studies, which get the long setting benefits by performing in one breath. I’m also doing this breathing for 2nds and other intervals and <> ><.
I still breath attack the beginning of each note pair.

There seems to be a momentum issue involved, from stopping to breathe so frequently. I’m finding that I can last longer on intervals by not stopping so often. Kind of like doing push-ups (with good form) straight until failure vs stopping to hold between each and every rep.

PH please share your thoughts about this approach. Thanks.


I have no idea about this unless I could see and hear what you are doing. Carmine customized the calisthenics to each person. While I've never heard of anyone trying to play longer on a breath in CC calisthenics, I don't see whay it wouldn't work AS LONG AS THE FOUR RULES ARE STRICTLY FOLLOWED. But the caveat is that CC exercises are never designed to be muscle building and strengethening exercises. They are designed to synchronize all muscular activity by focusing on rhythm. The only purpose of the nose breath is to eliminate the possibility of resetting during the breath and minimize the possibility of manipulation.
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chrisroyal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Pat.

The only tricky part is to truly subdivide to 16th notes just before synchronizing the changing valves and breath attack at start of each of the 6 notes or interval pairs.

The subdividing every 2nd and 4th quarters (Julie Landsman shows in her videos) helps a lot with this process. Normally I would change to next valve combination during each rest before next breath attack. I’ve been doing Caruso for over 10 years the original way.

I have always noticed that players who circular breathe also get stronger from simply playing continuously for longer periods. I’m noticing endurance benefits to playing longer on each breath during Caruso.
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