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William Adam & Greg Wing play the routine


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Billy B
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Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xx
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Bill Bergren


Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1727

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Disclaimer: I have never had a lesson with Mr. Adam, but have taken some lessons with his students over the course of my career.


For Stuartissimo:

This is the main reason for what I was warning about (disparaging comments towards Adam-school). Billy B has fallen into all of the tropes of what is so wrong with "the club of infallible Adam students." It is the main reason I have disassociated myself from it.

So, as I mentioned, it's great to hear Mr. Adam speak about things that show that he is actually a great pedagogue that is knowledgeable. Too many of his students present in a way that is just regurgitation instead of true mastery of teaching. Because Mr. Adam left so much "unsaid" and the successful students are a product of that, they tend to not have actually gained the depth of knowledge that Mr. Adam had. The "monolith of phrases" is just poor teaching. Mr. Adam himself was a great teacher as evidenced by the audio. That's what makes it a valuable resource: salvation from toxicity.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://soundcloud.com/gwing-86891706/william-adam-greg-wing-play-the-routine

JayKosta wrote:
JayKosta wrote:
...
22:50 to end about 'pronouncing the notes' - seems like a 'how' instruction to me about tonguing.

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I think this mention of 'pronouncing the notes' can be very helpful - and perhaps not limited to only tonguing concerns.
...
Does anyone know if Adam used that concept as a regular part of his teaching? And was it limited to tonguing? ...

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I listened to another Greg Wing / Adam video and noticed a similar mention of 'pronunciation' by Adam, but this time it's about the overall sound that is to be produced - the link is -

https://soundcloud.com/gwing-86891706/william-adam-first-trumpet-class-of-year-1977

and the section that mentions pronunciation is at 31:20 - 33:50 .

note: for those who feel that I am 'cherry picking' small details and minutiae from various sources, it's because I've found that in many cases those small 'cherries' reveal aspects of the subject that get over shadowed, and ignored or overlooked by the remaining bulk of the material.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Steve A
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Joined: 26 May 2006
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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abontrumpet wrote:


Maybe what I'm about to say is slightly controversial, but I have heard more disparaging things about Adam students and teachers than any other "school of pedagogy." The distillation of Adam's teachings would certainly lead to the bad reputation. This audio shows that Mr. Adam was a very knowledgable pedagogue who was willing to talk about "sensation" and knew about the physical aspects of playing but chose to lead the student accordingly. Too often, in the context of "the Adam School," you hear dogma and absolutes ...


Some version of this issue probably applies to pretty much all of the famous "name" teachers we're familiar with. I think we can see that with pretty much all of the different schools of playing, there was a tremendous amount of knowledge and intuition behind which things the original teacher chose to say, or (just as importantly) not to say, but the students who later went on to perpetuate these methods could only know the small parts they heard. (As best they understood them at the time, and as they remember them later.) The things they heard or remembered are probably mostly true/accurate, but are effectively like two-dimensional representations of a much complex more picture.

The different teaching points, or exercises, or methods are probably generally good and can potentially help many people, but the real magic was in what the original teachers heard in their students, and could respond to by guiding them to something better, and, IMO, that's not something that can be set down on paper, or systematized into a set methodology.
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