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Carbon Fiber mutes??



 
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JoshRzepka
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:53 pm    Post subject: Carbon Fiber mutes?? Reply with quote

Hey TH,

This week I had a chance to review the new carbon fiber straight mute from protec, a very cool looking and great playing mute.

I'm aware of only one other trumpet mute that has been made in carbon fiber, but it was never really commercially available (a cup mute made years ago in very limited quantities by a French aerospace engineer). Hopefully there are more carbon fiber mutes to come as I think this material could really make some more terrific mutes.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has played any carbon fiber mutes, or if anyone is aware of other CF mutes that have been made.


Link

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homebilly
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it looks pretty hip and sounds good too
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another terrific video! Thanks, Josh. Makes sense that a carbon fiber mute would come from a case manufacturer. This is the kind of thing I expected from Torpedo once they announced that they were getting into carbon fiber, particularly after they partnered with Gavin Brehm (who made some VERY cool mutes that were, unfortunately, too delicate to be practical).
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JoshRzepka
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

homebilly wrote:
it looks pretty hip and sounds good too


Yup! Thanks for checking out the vid.
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JoshRzepka
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
Another terrific video! Thanks, Josh. Makes sense that a carbon fiber mute would come from a case manufacturer. This is the kind of thing I expected from Torpedo once they announced that they were getting into carbon fiber, particularly after they partnered with Gavin Brehm (who made some VERY cool mutes that were, unfortunately, too delicate to be practical).


Thank you!

Yes, I'm surprised other mainstream mute makers haven't made any CF mutes, it seems to be a great material from this mute.
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Nathan.Sobieralski
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoshRzepka wrote:


Thank you!

Yes, I'm surprised other mainstream mute makers haven't made any CF mutes, it seems to be a great material from this mute.


I can speak to this a bit, having had experience working with composites in non-mute-related fields.

1- The process is very different than other mute-making processes, so a larger established mute making company is likely not interested in investing time, tooling cost, and knowhow in this when other processes are much cheaper and faster (stamping/injection molding/etc)

2- When done the way I am familiar with (plug->mold->layup->assembly/post processing) creating a composite part is labor-intensive and slow, which is obviously not mass production-friendly and would drive the end retail cost sky-high for a small consumer item like a brass instrument mute.

I suspect there are cheaper and faster ways to generate a composite part though I am not familiar with those processes. I wonder what process ProTec is using for this, and the type of resin they are using. Someone pointed out earlier that it makes sense a case manufacturer would dive into this, and I agree. I'm interested to see what they come up with next, no doubt CF is a very cool material!
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JoshRzepka
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan.Sobieralski wrote:
JoshRzepka wrote:


Thank you!

Yes, I'm surprised other mainstream mute makers haven't made any CF mutes, it seems to be a great material from this mute.


I can speak to this a bit, having had experience working with composites in non-mute-related fields.

1- The process is very different than other mute-making processes, so a larger established mute making company is likely not interested in investing time, tooling cost, and knowhow in this when other processes are much cheaper and faster (stamping/injection molding/etc)

2- When done the way I am familiar with (plug->mold->layup->assembly/post processing) creating a composite part is labor-intensive and slow, which is obviously not mass production-friendly and would drive the end retail cost sky-high for a small consumer item like a brass instrument mute.

I suspect there are cheaper and faster ways to generate a composite part though I am not familiar with those processes. I wonder what process ProTec is using for this, and the type of resin they are using. Someone pointed out earlier that it makes sense a case manufacturer would dive into this, and I agree. I'm interested to see what they come up with next, no doubt CF is a very cool material!


Thanks for all this great info!

I remember when I made my video on the Marcus Bonna mutes - fiberglass mutes, and a similar process, they said it took approximately a week to make a mute from start to finish, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar for Carbon Fiber.
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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan.Sobieralski wrote:
JoshRzepka wrote:


Thank you!

Yes, I'm surprised other mainstream mute makers haven't made any CF mutes, it seems to be a great material from this mute.


I can speak to this a bit, having had experience working with composites in non-mute-related fields.

1- The process is very different than other mute-making processes, so a larger established mute making company is likely not interested in investing time, tooling cost, and knowhow in this when other processes are much cheaper and faster (stamping/injection molding/etc)

2- When done the way I am familiar with (plug->mold->layup->assembly/post processing) creating a composite part is labor-intensive and slow, which is obviously not mass production-friendly and would drive the end retail cost sky-high for a small consumer item like a brass instrument mute.

I suspect there are cheaper and faster ways to generate a composite part though I am not familiar with those processes. I wonder what process ProTec is using for this, and the type of resin they are using. Someone pointed out earlier that it makes sense a case manufacturer would dive into this, and I agree. I'm interested to see what they come up with next, no doubt CF is a very cool material!


I'll add that carbon fibre and the resin are horrible on the lungs as well and need good ventilation and PPE while working with it.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Divitt Trumpets wrote:
Nathan.Sobieralski wrote:
JoshRzepka wrote:


Thank you!

Yes, I'm surprised other mainstream mute makers haven't made any CF mutes, it seems to be a great material from this mute.


I can speak to this a bit, having had experience working with composites in non-mute-related fields.

1- The process is very different than other mute-making processes, so a larger established mute making company is likely not interested in investing time, tooling cost, and knowhow in this when other processes are much cheaper and faster (stamping/injection molding/etc)

2- When done the way I am familiar with (plug->mold->layup->assembly/post processing) creating a composite part is labor-intensive and slow, which is obviously not mass production-friendly and would drive the end retail cost sky-high for a small consumer item like a brass instrument mute.

I suspect there are cheaper and faster ways to generate a composite part though I am not familiar with those processes. I wonder what process ProTec is using for this, and the type of resin they are using. Someone pointed out earlier that it makes sense a case manufacturer would dive into this, and I agree. I'm interested to see what they come up with next, no doubt CF is a very cool material!


I'll add that carbon fibre and the resin are horrible on the lungs as well and need good ventilation and PPE while working with it.


Not to mention that carbon fiber production is extremely environmentally irresponsible. Given its high cost and almost complete substitution by/for cheaper and more environmentally friendly methods of production, I'm not surprised it hasn't caught on more.
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