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Embouchure formation


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rubberchops
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Quote:
Let's not confuse our beginner with word salads.

(Says one who wrote: "Use air speed to ascend")
If you instruct one to "use air speed", how are they to know what you are referring to? How would you describe the specific actions required to increase or decrease air "speed"? Or is one expected to know that? (For the benefit of the OP please.)

rubberchops wrote:
Quote:
I had my first lesson tonight and I need to work on my embouchure. Can anyone point me towards some good videos or pictures?


I have some information I can send you that works GREAT for beginners. Send me a PM. The Charlie Porter video requires FAR more effort and complexity than is required to form a good embouchure.

On your first lesson, did your teacher require for you to buzz either the mouthpiece alone (without the instrument), or the lips alone?


We did buzzing on the mouthpiece alone.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We did buzzing on the mouthpiece alone


THAT, is unfortunate.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Embouchure formation Reply with quote

rubberchops wrote:
I had my first lesson tonight and I need to work on my embouchure. Can anyone point me towards some good videos or pictures?

Thanks.

I would strongly advise you to be very careful in trying to supplement what your teacher is giving you. I can see a bunch of well-intended advice conflicting with what your teacher is trying to do.
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rubberchops
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Embouchure formation Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
rubberchops wrote:
I had my first lesson tonight and I need to work on my embouchure. Can anyone point me towards some good videos or pictures?

Thanks.

I would strongly advise you to be very careful in trying to supplement what your teacher is giving you. I can see a bunch of well-intended advice conflicting with what your teacher is trying to do.


There certainly seems to be a wealth of information and opinions! I thought my request was innocent enough.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Embouchure formation Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
I would strongly advise you to be very careful in trying to supplement what your teacher is giving you. I can see a bunch of well-intended advice conflicting with what your teacher is trying to do.

Gotta agree with that. There's a reason you chose that particular teacher after all...if you're gonna skip their teachings and views then you might as well quite the lessons and save some money. However, being curious and broadening your view isn't a bad thing, but consider discussing your new insights with your teacher before you try to put them into practice.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There certainly seems to be a wealth of information and opinions! I thought my request was innocent enough.


There is a trove of disinformation and dogma. And generally just stuff trumpet players say.

You are wise to have an inquisitive mind. Much of the "common advice" is not productive. Will it help you produce some kind of sound? Yes. Will it give you tone, range ,endurance and musicianship in the long run (if ever)? Very unlikely.

And yes, as a beginner, if a teacher requires you to buzz the mouthpiece alone you should get another teacher.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Embouchure formation Reply with quote

rubberchops wrote:
cheiden wrote:
rubberchops wrote:
I had my first lesson tonight and I need to work on my embouchure. Can anyone point me towards some good videos or pictures?

Thanks.

I would strongly advise you to be very careful in trying to supplement what your teacher is giving you. I can see a bunch of well-intended advice conflicting with what your teacher is trying to do.


There certainly seems to be a wealth of information and opinions! I thought my request was innocent enough.


Actually, your question was so vague that anyone here could read almost anything in to it.

And they did.

If you had provided a paragraph of background information, such as your age, previous musical experience, and whether or not you are an actual beginner, it might have helped. You would have still received highly biased opinions, but at least there would have been something more concrete to grasp rather than blindly responding to assumptions.

You say that you "need to work on your embouchure." What exactly is wrong with your embouchure? How do you know that you need to work on it? What does the phrase "work on your embouchure" mean to you?

Jeff
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rubberchops
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies if my first post was a little on the vague side.

My embouchure needs improvement in the engagement of the correct muscles, mouthpiece pressure etc. My interest in finding pictures and videos of correct embouchures was to give me a jumping off point to assist me in finding correct formation.
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the article “before the beginning” on this website. It’s under the heading Best Of with several other articles. Helped me immensely when I was getting wrapped around the axle.

http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/

Hope it helps.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubberchops, there is no need to apologize.

However, you didn't answer any of the questions, especially the one about being a raw beginner. And that is your business if you do or do not.

You did say, "My embouchure needs improvement in the engagement of the correct muscles, mouthpiece pressure etc."

How do you know this is true? Did someone tell you this? Is it a conclusion you have drawn yourself because something isn't going well, and it sounded logical?

Which muscles are correct? How much mouthpiece pressure is correct?

Most beginners, even as adults, don't think about such things.

Jeff
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steve0930
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rubberchops.
You're getting a lot of support here - makes me envious! I'm like you - pretty much a novice - started 5.5 years ago (well 2053 days but who's counting?) and still in just as much a hurry as you are to learn.
I think the single most important factor in your development and progress towards the Holy Grail of a Balanced Embouchure (As Robert P says - a lifelong quest) will be to stay highly motivated. Knowing that you are on the right path (As Jay points out) will help your motivation a lot.

TrumpetTeacher1 has taught thousands of Players so my tip is to answer his questions as openly and fully as you can. You will then get feedback if you are on the right path or not.

Gosh we're pretty lucky in this Forum -imagine a Golfing Forum where the World's Top Pros would come in and help someone who is just picking up a club for the first time?!

The one tip I wish some one had told me Day1 is that more force or effort is very unlikely to be the answer on the Horn.

All the Best Rubberchops - and do you know I'm also envious that I'm not like you and back on Day1 because, especially at the start of your Journey, you have so many adventures ahead - uphills and downhills - moments of despair followed by sheer exhilaration - good luck and enjoy the scenery on the way!

Cheers and stay safe - Steve in Helsinki
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rubberchops
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
Rubberchops, there is no need to apologize.

However, you didn't answer any of the questions, especially the one about being a raw beginner. And that is your business if you do or do not.

You did say, "My embouchure needs improvement in the engagement of the correct muscles, mouthpiece pressure etc."

How do you know this is true? Did someone tell you this? Is it a conclusion you have drawn yourself because something isn't going well, and it sounded logical?

Which muscles are correct? How much mouthpiece pressure is correct?

Most beginners, even as adults, don't think about such things.

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

What lead me to the conclusion that I was doing something wrong was pain in my lips. Especially my top lip. My teacher indicated that I wasn't forming my embouchure properly and as a result using too much pressure. He gave me guidance in this area but I was interested in more information, hence my original post.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubberchops wrote:
What lead me to the conclusion that I was doing something wrong was pain in my lips. Especially my top lip. My teacher indicated that I wasn't forming my embouchure properly and as a result using too much pressure. He gave me guidance in this area but I was interested in more information, hence my original post.

The teacher should have prescribed very specific exercises and shown you exactly how to execute them. The expectation will be that you are diligent in practicing accordingly and after a week or two the teacher will evaluate and decide how to proceed. Be careful that your independent research doesn't lead you to doing things your teacher didn't prescribe or it could really make it hard for them to evaluate your progress and guide you.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where and how did we turn the corner into giving Internet Gurus more credibility than in-person Mentors?
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubberchops wrote:
trumpetteacher1 wrote:
Rubberchops, there is no need to apologize.

However, you didn't answer any of the questions, especially the one about being a raw beginner. And that is your business if you do or do not.

You did say, "My embouchure needs improvement in the engagement of the correct muscles, mouthpiece pressure etc."

How do you know this is true? Did someone tell you this? Is it a conclusion you have drawn yourself because something isn't going well, and it sounded logical?

Which muscles are correct? How much mouthpiece pressure is correct?

Most beginners, even as adults, don't think about such things.

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

What lead me to the conclusion that I was doing something wrong was pain in my lips. Especially my top lip. My teacher indicated that I wasn't forming my embouchure properly and as a result using too much pressure. He gave me guidance in this area but I was interested in more information, hence my original post.


OK, that was helpful. But, it also prompts more relatively obvious questions.

In 40 years, I have never had a beginner complain about pain in the lips. What were you doing when the pain occurred? For example, were you trying to play high notes? If you are a beginner, that was probably not a great idea, unless you were given specific instruction on how to do it as part of a development routine.

I am not against seeking more information. However, I have seen beginners here - with their beginner frame of reference - latch onto information that they think they need, as opposed to information that they actually need. It also sounds like you have little trust in your teacher. Perhaps you are justified, perhaps not.

At any rate, I am bowing out of this thread. I hope that you get the information that you actually need.

Jeff
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Big C
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing for sure about buzzing the mouthpiece: It might be good and it might be bad*.

That was a joke. Maybe.

Ya gotta love trumpet players talking about trumpet playing: I think this is why I suck**.

That was another joke. Maybe.


* Third possibility: Buzzing the mouthpiece might be neither particularly good, nor bad. At any rate, it's gotta be ONE of those... good, bad or neither. Actually, it could be all of those, just depending on the individual.

** Ouch, that was a throwaway remark that could sound like I am disparaging the many knowledgeable players and excellent teachers that post here. I AM NOT! One question I might have for "rubberchops" (one to which he/she probably does not know the answer) is; Is his/her teacher qualified to give trumpet-specific instruction? A red flag might be that rubberchops, after one lesson, felt compelled to search for more fundamental information on an on-line sight, rather than asking the teacher or at least waiting for a second lesson.
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