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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:27 am Post subject: Pitch Accuracy - Sight Reading |
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I'd like your views about how to teach, learn, and improve 'pitch accuracy' (hitting the correct note) - especially when playing written material that is not familiar, or which has 'difficult' pitch changes.
I've been thinking that for learning and training, it is important to actually see the written notes even when playing very simple things such as long tones, scales, arpeggios, etc.
SEE the written note, and be AWARE of what is being done to produce the best sound for that note.
My reasoning is that a player needs to develop the the 'unconscious reactive' skill of producing the correct physical and mental adjustments to play the proper note as the written note is observed - and that actual observation of the written note on the page is important - to unite the 'seeing' and the 'doing', with a minimum of 'thinking'. Doing that 'seeing' while 'playing' even simple material can help the training process.
Perhaps some players visualize those written notes, even if they do not have them available to see. But my guess is that many players just 'play the notes' as a matter of routine without the visual part. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 1991 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:55 am Post subject: |
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A few quick thoughts. First, know what the note sounds like. Too often the emphasis is simply on the right fingering. That may work ok within and below the staff, but above the staff, where the partials get closer and closer together, you really need to know what an Ab or C# sounds like, not just what valves to push down, to make sure you get the note right.
Second, is understanding the relationship between notes, and what it takes to move from one to the other. A good way to do that is to work on intervals and arpeggios. Arban, Vizzutti and many, many other method books offer exercises to help you with that. And, of course, you can augment time on the trumpet with time on the keyboard to help with that. This is where more contemporary methods like Vizzutti's can be particularly useful as he doesn't limit himself to what was common in the late 19th century.... |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8967 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Sing-play isolated and random pitches. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Hi, working on ear training can help and singing the the notes before playing the piece or exercise. This takes some practice. Also, I'm going through some of the exercise, etudes, in a book called Advanced Studies of Aaron Harris. Some of the exercises are interesting and are taken from violin pieces. It can be a fun and challenging book.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm always reminded of Bud Herseth's usual comment was about "how do you do that"?
His answer was simple: Go Practice.
The Arban book has interval studies as does many other method books. Use a tuner or an in-tune keyboard to learn what the pitch sounds like. Ear training anyone?
The only way one gets to be a good player on any instrument is to practice.
Once one knows what the note is supposed to sound like, everything becomes easier.
R. Tomasek |
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jairo_saade Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2020 Posts: 55 Location: Panamá
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
This is a very interesting topic, my initial reaction was "the obvious answer is practice" but then I realized it is not that simple because a lot of people including myself practice without a tuner or a reference such as a piano.
I think that practicing intervals and arpeggios is great to understand the relationship between notes, but you could be playing the right intervals but flat/sharp in reference to a 440 Hz Concert A.
I would suggest that the practice routine should include an initial tuning when the horn is warm and also dedicating some time to practicing the feel of the different keys and notes. Something that I have found particularly helpful is practicing with drones (similar to the Shruti Box) and this helps me be more accurate with pitch in general.
Regards,
Joe _________________ Joe S |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8967 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:22 am Post subject: |
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About the importance of practice - practice, yes, but listen intently to what you play. If training the ear for pitch recognition, don't just play the note, listen to it critically. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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jairo_saade Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2020 Posts: 55 Location: Panamá
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Here is a link to a youtube video from Ingrid Jensen explaining the concept more in depth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXBiH5EL8x8
regards.
Joe _________________ Joe S |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:19 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | About the importance of practice - practice, yes, but listen intently to what you play. If training the ear for pitch recognition, don't just play the note, listen to it critically. |
1+ Yes, listening is the key. Years ago in an ear training class (which I later taught at the Armed Forces School of Music) we did exercises where we memorized tunes that started with or had the same intervals as all the intervals within an octave and then more. Sing the tune, sing the interval ie augmented 4th = Maria, Somewhere over the Rainbow = perfect octave, Taps = perfect 4th. Practice sounding the first note, sing the song, sing the interval. Practice singing these up and down, remember, a major 3rd inverted is a minor 6th, etc.
I know this sounds simplistic, but it works. When I'm sight reading and I see an interval, I already internally hear it and I'm already singing it in my head before I play it. But, practice intervals in Arban, sing them then play them. This is called audiation. With enough practice you will see it, hear it (internally), play it.
Hope this helps,
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8967 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:25 am Post subject: |
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LOL. Yes, relatively:
Maria
Somewhere
My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean
Singly, I find something like the expanding intervals in Adams' Warm-up, helpful. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Rapier232 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1320 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Lots of advice about singing. Doesn’t help if you can’t sing. _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8967 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I can't. I have only one working vocal cord. Use your inner ear. Hear it in your mind, don't ignore it. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:18 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | I can't. I have only one working vocal cord. Use your inner ear. Hear it in your mind, don't ignore it. |
I have a paralyzed vocal cord from some thoracic surgery I had 2 years ago and I'm all but deaf in my left ear. Audiation, I can still kind of sing the intervals, I can play them on guitar, I can play them on piano, I can play them on my trumpet, I can memorize them through repetition (practice) and I can internally hear them. Why, practice, practice, practice.
The armature practices until he/she can play it. The professional practice until she/he can't miss it.
Practice: slow, deliberate, hear it, internalize it, gradually speed it up, but don't over analyze it. Play each interval exercise until you don't miss. I'm still working on it. It's the journey.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Play it on a piano (which could be an app on your PC or phone), use solfege if at all possible, pick up a book on sight singing. Transfer to trumpet. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Garage Band _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I've learned to enjoy just reading. Open up a collection of not-too-hard etudes and read them down all in one sitting. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7004 Location: AZ
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Rapier232 wrote: | Lots of advice about singing. Doesn’t help if you can’t sing. |
Anybody can sing. It's just like talking, you just elo-o-ongate the to-o-o-o-ne. Matching pitch is something more. Yes, some people have more natural ability, but most people have more latent ability than they think they have.
I've raised six sons. All of them matched pitch beautifully and perfectly in tune when they were toddlers. It was only later as they became self-aware that that ability vanished. It is almost certainly a self-image issue, not a physical or mental ability issue.
Using drones to harmonize with is a great way to increase one's awareness of vocal pitch and make the required brain connections to sing adequately. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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1. Sing in tune. If you can’t sing in tune, learn to do so. College students learn to do this every year, even the ones who can’t do it well coming in (drummers).
2. Learn your musical vocabulary — scales, arpeggios, intervals. Virtually nothing should be new when you read. Read the “words” (groups of notes) rather than trying to sound out “letters” (individual notes). You must be able to hear and sing this too, not just play it. Live with the arpeggio section in Arban and wear out your Clarke book. Make sure you can sing this, not just that lay it.
3. Fix your ears, not your feelings. Clams start in your ears and aural imagination (or lack of one) rather than in lack of feeling the note. |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I taught theory and ear training on the adult/college level for several years. There are books and websites out there on ear trading and sight reading too. I found that most people can sing arpeggios (triads major, minor, diminished, and augmented) and scales with practice. I only had one student in 7 years who could not do the ear training and he had a performance degree. He played piano. My first arranging instructor was a percussionist and he could sing all the melodic ear training exercises.
Further, I have been a band director, military musician and presently direct a community band. I in some of the military bands I’ve played in we sang our parts in rehearsals. I made my middle and high school band students sing parts when fixing player problems, etc. it’s all about how we learn. Yes, when I first introduced singing your part and as a section/group some people/students were apprehensive about singing in front of their peers, but I explained they were all in the same boat so there was no need for embarrassment. Most people can learn to sing. Maybe not always on pitch or the best tone quality, but you can do it. Besides, if you can sing the pitch, it makes it easier to center the pitch and tone on your instrument. I also preach to play as if you are singing. Repeat after me: if I can sing it I can play it. Well, maybe with some concentrated practice.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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mcstock Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 466 Location: Norman, OK
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I've been taking solfege lessons for about a year and half. It's been a game changer.
https://dougamostrumpet.wordpress.com/solfege-and-theory/
Best
Matt _________________ “It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.”
Epictetus |
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