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coraltrpt Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Posts: 88
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:29 pm Post subject: Mild Throat Burning |
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I just received a vintage horn last week after having it restored. The horn plays beautifully. That's not the problem.
I get a little burning sensation in the back of my throat after playing it for more than 5 minutes. I don't know what's going on - this doesn't happen on any of my other horns.
I tried cleaning it twice and switched to bio oil and it's still happening. The leadpipe has a little raw brass exposed. Could this be the problem?
Is it wise to try and sonically clean a vintage horn? Should I try and have the leadpipe re-plated?
For reference, it's a Mahillon Bb trumpet from the 1930s. The leadpipe goes directly into the valve casing at the first valve. My first thought was that the valve oil is getting into my throat.
In any case, I don't want to play it if it's unhealthy. Any help is much appreciated! |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Any chance there's mold or mildew in the case? _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187
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coraltrpt Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Posts: 88
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's been outside of a case on a stand.
My next question: if I have this old horn cleaned in a sonic cleaner will it damage the instrument? Create new leaks? I've heard this can happen. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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coraltrpt wrote: | It's been outside of a case on a stand.
My next question: if I have this old horn cleaned in a sonic cleaner will it damage the instrument? Create new leaks? I've heard this can happen. |
Aggressive cleaning techniques will have aggressive results. Both chem and ultrasonic cleanings unavoidably take a toll on the original fabric.
If this is a result of penetrating oils having been used to free frozen slides, etc., then you may be facing a long road in terms of light ends leaching back out for some time to come. MANY dawn soap based cleanings can essentially help to degrease the horn, but its like trying to get all the oil out of bearing bronze - brass horns hang on to it. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
If this is a result of penetrating oils having been used to free frozen slides, etc., then you may be facing a long road in terms of light ends leaching back out for some time to come. MANY dawn soap based cleanings can essentially help to degrease the horn, but its like trying to get all the oil out of bearing bronze - brass horns hang on to it. |
Ron,
I have used cider vinegar to strip away residue from original Tromba valve oil, which had built up a gumminess that I could not get off any other way. It worked when I submerged the parts in a jar for 20-30 minutes and wiped vinegar on the exposed inner slide tubes on the horn.
Do you think that might also give a good result with penetrating oils? _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:55 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
If this is a result of penetrating oils having been used to free frozen slides, etc., then you may be facing a long road in terms of light ends leaching back out for some time to come. MANY dawn soap based cleanings can essentially help to degrease the horn, but its like trying to get all the oil out of bearing bronze - brass horns hang on to it. |
Ron,
I have used cider vinegar to strip away residue from original Tromba valve oil, which had built up a gumminess that I could not get off any other way. It worked when I submerged the parts in a jar for 20-30 minutes and wiped vinegar on the exposed inner slide tubes on the horn.
Do you think that might also give a good result with penetrating oils? |
I'm actually surprised that had such an effect - unless the "gumminess" was mineral-based.
If you think about salad dressing, oil+vinegar is not a solution, its an emulsion created by mechanical effort - because vinegar is not a very effective organic solvent. Everclear on the other hand would certainly dissolve oils, but with alcohol's affinity for water, would probably leave much of the oil behind the moment you start to rinse.
I don't know how Dawn works chemically, but somehow it breaks oil apart, somewhat like a solvent, but then retains it as the soap is rinsed away, carrying the oil off in the process.
Since in this case, that oil is soaked-in, its not that easy. I have tried alcohol followed by dawn with some noticeable effect. Why some horns hang onto oil and others clean easily, I don't know. Possibly lead from soldering and bending factors in on vintage horns.
So I doubt vinegar would have the desired effect - and as it can etch a granite countertop, I would worry the acids may take away zinc instead. (And, of course, we protect granite countertops against acid etching by vinegar, lemon, etc. with oil, so I take that as another indicator) _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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derekthor Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012 Posts: 480 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:17 am Post subject: |
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You say that the horn was "restored", so I'd assume that it was cleaned as part of that process. Do you have an invoice with all the details? The first thing that comes to mind is that the cleaning chemicals weren't neutralized properly at the end of the cleaning process. Give it a good soak in Dawn while scrubbing everything out, then see if that helps.
If it wasn't cleaned as part of the restoration process, then I'd obviously get that done professionally. Speaking as a tech, I personally wouldn't but a horn that old through an ultrasonic, and I'd still check every solder joint for leaks afterwards. |
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