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Robert P
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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:39 am Post subject: What makes something a "characteristic study"? |
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Title says it - why are certain exercises labeled a characteristic study?
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delano
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Dayton
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| My understanding is that characteristic studies are intended as studies that help you develop a particular technique or style of playing in a musical context (as opposed to a drill). |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Dayton wrote: | | My understanding is that characteristic studies are intended as studies that help you develop a particular technique or style of playing in a musical context (as opposed to a drill). |
How is that different than an etude?
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brassmoose
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Dayton wrote: | | My understanding is that characteristic studies are intended as studies that help you develop a particular technique or style of playing in a musical context (as opposed to a drill). |
How is that different than an etude? |
An étude is more legit more because it has a fancy French title. |
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dstpt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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The French word "étude" merely translates as "study."
étude = A short musical composition, typically for one instrument, designed as an exercise to improve the technique or demonstrate the skill of the player. |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dstpt wrote: | The French word "étude" merely translates as "study."
étude = A short musical composition, typically for one instrument, designed as an exercise to improve the technique or demonstrate the skill of the player. |
Hm. Clear as mud.
Taking two examples, Clarke's Characteristic Studies for the Cornet are obviously aimed at developing specific techniques over the range of the instrument and when played well can sound musical; then we have Arban's 14 Characteristic Studies that are also aimed at specific techniques, but are certainly more musical than what Clarke wrote and would fit the definition you give of an etude.
Based on this, it seems they are synonymous.
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dstpt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | dstpt wrote: | The French word "étude" merely translates as "study."
étude = A short musical composition, typically for one instrument, designed as an exercise to improve the technique or demonstrate the skill of the player. |
Hm. Clear as mud.
Taking two examples, Clarke's Characteristic Studies for the Cornet are obviously aimed at developing specific techniques over the range of the instrument and when played well can sound musical; then we have Arban's 14 Characteristic Studies that are also aimed at specific techniques, but are certainly more musical than what Clarke wrote and would fit the definition you give of an etude.
Based on this, it seems they are synonymous. |
Right.
étude = study
Is that clearer? The words mean the same, just in different languages. A composer might use one or the other, pending his mood at the moment or whatever the music editor decides before it goes to print at the publishing house.
Last edited by dstpt on Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Characteristic Studies are Etudes.
Etudes are Characteristic Studies with a fancier name.
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Nathan.Sobieralski
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | Characteristic Studies are Etudes.
Etudes are Characteristic Studies with a fancier name. |
I would add that there are etudes with little intrinsic musical value (for the listener!), like articulation studies, or clarke technical studies, etc. There are etudes that have you work on a certain character or style, like Charlier, Bitsch, etc. These could be labeled etudes, characteristic studies, stylistic studies, etc. If I pull a book labeled "characteristic studies" I expect each to address a particular musical style or character.
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan.Sobieralski wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | Characteristic Studies are Etudes.
Etudes are Characteristic Studies with a fancier name. |
I would add that there are etudes with little intrinsic musical value (for the listener!), like articulation studies, or clarke technical studies, etc. There are etudes that have you work on a certain character or style, like Charlier, Bitsch, etc. These could be labeled etudes, characteristic studies, stylistic studies, etc. If I pull a book labeled "characteristic studies" I expect each to address a particular musical style or character. |
A fair take, but Clarke's Technical Studies or even other technical exercises don't really fit the definition of etude as given by dstpt.
The definitions of etude given here https://www.thefreedictionary.com/etude all contain the word "composition" or "piece" (meaning an artistic, literary, or musical work). In other words, they are supposed to be a musical means of exploring and developing something technical. One could play Clarke's Technical Studies and try to make them musical, but that's not actually their primary purpose - they are purely technical. Some may try to make them musical, but we can only play so many pianissimo chromatic runs or arpeggios before we get absolutely bored. This does not mean we should be robotic when we approach them - such exercises can only be and sound as interesting to us and anyone listening as we are interested when we play them, and we absolutely need to be interested in what we play or no one will listen.
It's been said that Herseth continually practiced etudes and he's quoted as saying he still could not get Arban's first characteristic study "quite right." I don't see that much room for musical development in simple technical exercises.
While the difference between etudes, characteristic studies, and studies might be a grey area, I think we can all agree that etudes and characteristic studies are inherently more musical, and that technical exercises (regardless of what they are called) are not.
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I agree, let's make a distinction between exercises and studies (etudes).
Execises are like Ban Lin or scales, flexibilities and intervals. Etudes have to do with some musical interpretation like phrasing, dynamics and so on.
Compare for example studying scales on the piano with the Symphonic Etudes by Robert Schumann, two different worlds.
But to call them characteristic studies/etudes is IMO some kind of pleonasm or some kind of marketing dressing.
Last edited by delano on Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dstpt
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | ...A fair take, but Clarke's Technical Studies or even other technical exercises don't really fit the definition of etude as given by dstpt.... |
The definition of étude that I pinned above was merely from copying and pasting from the Internet, and we know the Internet is always completely comprehensive. (These last two words might be a perfect example of pleonasm, for any questioning what that is...or is that mere redundancy?!)
Regardless, I would be in full agreement with Dr. Sobieralski's clarification. We could choose to go rather "narrow" with our definition of the term étude, or widen that definition to include even things like the “patterns” in Clarke's Technical Studies. We could accept the word “study” as the English equivalent (in musical contexts) to the French word “étude,” or we could even make further distinctions between our use of those two terms.
Interestingly, if we take a close look at that book, we see that Clarke (or the publisher) did just that and made a distinction between the terms étude and study! The short patterns that we might be more prone to label as “exercises” (moving chromatically through all keys and expanding beyond a single octave in each key) is where we see the word "STUDY"...FIRST STUDY, SECOND STUDY, THIRD STUDY, etc. {Perhaps instead of STUDY, these could have been labeled SECTION or CHAPTER or PATTERN.) Then at the end of each STUDY, we see "ETUDE ONE, ETUDE TWO, ETUDE THREE, etc. So in this book, we see a complete distinction between the terms étude and study, words that are officially or normally considered synonyms to where the French word "étude" and the English equivalent “study” are no longer exactly the same. If we accept the online definition that Tpt_Guy referenced, then perhaps we would have to say that Clarke misused the term STUDY, or should have used a different word altogether. (Imagine that: a trumpet [cornet] player confusing people with his usage of a musical term. I can now see why the OP posed this question.)
So much for consistency in language! None of that bothers me, because I've decided to accept the fact that anytime I have a real narrow definition of a term, something is bound to come along and disrupt that understanding. Oh, well…so much for me understanding anything!
(I believe my explanations above could be considered pleonastic.)
pleonasm = the use of more words than are necessary to convey meaning (e.g. see with one's eyes ), either as a fault of style or for emphasis. |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Nathan.Sobieralski wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | Characteristic Studies are Etudes.
Etudes are Characteristic Studies with a fancier name. |
I would add that there are etudes with little intrinsic musical value (for the listener!), like articulation studies, or clarke technical studies, etc. There are etudes that have you work on a certain character or style, like Charlier, Bitsch, etc. These could be labeled etudes, characteristic studies, stylistic studies, etc. If I pull a book labeled "characteristic studies" I expect each to address a particular musical style or character. |
A fair take, but Clarke's Technical Studies or even other technical exercises don't really fit the definition of etude as given by dstpt. |
I'll just point out that Clarke did call them Technical Studies, not Characteristic Studies or Etudes. He also wrote something he did term Characteristic Studies, himself.
So, clearly he (and possibly others) did see a difference between Characteristic Studies and Technical Studies, even if some dictionary online seems to not make much of a distinction.
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MrOlds
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Here’s my take on these terms:
We usually learn individual techniques using short, focused exercises.
Then we learn how to use a set of techniques in a musical context (etude or study) in ways that were typical (characteristic) for the time and place of the author/teacher/composer.
Some etudes are technical studies (mastering one or more techniques in long form). Some are more about learning to say something with the bag of techniques you have mastered. |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| dstpt wrote: | We could accept the word “study” as the English equivalent (in musical contexts) to the French word “étude,” or we could even make further distinctions between our use of those two terms.
Interestingly, if we take a close look at that book, we see that Clarke (or the publisher) did just that and made a distinction between the terms étude and study!. |
If we are to accept etude and study as synonyms, we also have to recognize that some pedagogues have used the terms incorrectly - they're only human.
According to Larousse, this is the French definition of etude (translated in to English, of course):
12. Piece of music, composed for didactic purposes.
Here is the original French:
12. Morceau de musique, composé dans un dessein didactique.
In French, an etude is a piece of music.
Every musical definition of the English word study that I could find (either online or in my hard copy dictionaries) is basically a paraphrase of Larousse. None of them omitted the musical aspect of studies, though some would be, as you might say, rather pleonastic.
With this, I am forced to conclude that exercises such as the Clarke Technical Studies aren't studies at all but are actually exercises.
Also, something I didn't consider, when I mentioned Arban's Characteristic Studies earlier is Arban's method was translated from French - études caractéristiques. Not a very good job on my part trying to make any clarification between etudes and characteristic studies. 
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dstpt
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | dstpt wrote: | We could accept the word “study” as the English equivalent (in musical contexts) to the French word “étude,” or we could even make further distinctions between our use of those two terms.
Interestingly, if we take a close look at that book, we see that Clarke (or the publisher) did just that and made a distinction between the terms étude and study!. |
...
With this, I am forced to conclude that exercises such as the Clarke Technical Studies aren't studies at all but are actually exercises.
Also, something I didn't consider, when I mentioned Arban's Characteristic Studies earlier is Arban's method was translated from French - études caractéristiques. Not a very good job on my part trying to make any clarification between etudes and characteristic studies. |
Right. The terms study and etude are definitely used in a variety of ways. I certainly can't affirm that they are synonyms, but only that Google Translate says that they are one and the same as does other online resources. It is rather frustrating that these varied uses cause confusion for us. All of this makes me want to relabel the Clarke pages that have the word "Study" by changing those titles to "Exercise Set One" or maybe "Pattern Set One," or the like. I even mentioned the issue to a HS student today during a lesson. But such is life, where we find ourselves making distinctions in our communiqué in order to share with as much accuracy as possible. I know of one well-known teacher/trumpeter who refuses to use the word "buzz" when it comes to discussing how we make a sound. The preference is to always use "vibrate." I am so conditioned to saying "buzz" that I catch myself in a hiccup trying to correct myself every time the word "buzz" is about to come out of my mouth. |
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Voltrane
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Gentlemen,
my own understanding:
exercices: pure technical exercises
studies: technical exercises in a musical context
caractéristique : adress one topic (intonation, fingering, and so on). You study something specifically. In this context I think the French « caractéristique »should be translated by specific.
caractéristiques studies: a book with different specific studies (a shortcut meaning « this book is about intonation studies, fingering studies, endurance studies ». Easier to print « Characteristic Studies »
The ideal Table of Content should be:
1. Study 1 : intonation
2. Study 2 : fingering
and so on.
And by the way études=studies, no problem with this.
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huntman10
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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So, somewhere we got drills, and I don't mean dentists, or messing up our mouthpiece orifices, but stuff like scales, arpeggios, lips slurs, all that Arban stuff that we all hated but needed. Organize that stuff into studies. Then write stuff we can get expressive with and give it a fancy French term, etude. Then you find an accompanist and play a solo.
At least that is the depth of my knowledge from my 9th grade year till now! 
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