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Schmidt backbore



 
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Kateeba
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is a Schmidt backbore. I see mention of it with Bach mouthpieces and some other brands too. I also see different numbers associated with it like 2 and 7 sometimes.

Can someone fill me in. Thanks

Lou
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Bartok
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Schmidt BB is a # 7 from bach. It's the normal BB on a B cup mouthpiece. Very open, different shape from the 24.
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Kateeba
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but it still doesn't answer my question. What is a Schmidt? Schmidts come in different numbers and different mouthpiece makers refer to them.

Lou
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Bartok
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that Schmitt or Schmidt was the mouthpiece model that people used in Europe and when Bach began making mouthpieces, they were somewhat modeled after that. The 7 was the bb used in those pieces.


If anyone can correct me on it, go ahead....might not be entirely correct.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the Schilke Loyalist site, Schmidt was a German mouthpiece company that existed around 100 years ago. Though the site credits Schmidt with "inventing" the Schmidt backbore, I believe at this point it's just a generic term used for a large backbore that any given mouthpiece maker thinks will appeal to symphony players. In other words, I doubt brand X's and brand Y's "Schmidt backbores" will be dimensionally identical.
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Kateeba
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh That is what I was looking for. So it is just a selling point then. Interesting.

I mean, what would be the difference between say, a # 7 Schmidt or a plain #7 from the same company? I was wondering if it was done in a special way or shape to be called a schmidt.

Thanks Lou
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allofyougetalife
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Laskey, a full schmitt is bigger than a Bach 24. A Bach 7 is actually smaller in some areas than a Bach standard 10 (different shape.) The Bach 7 is described as Schmitt style, but it is not a full Schmitt. Technically you can't alter a Bach 10 to a Bach 7, it would have to be a custom order.

AOYGAL
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jrpbrass
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:59 am    Post subject: Schmidt Origins Reply with quote

I know this is an old topic, but for those wishing to know more about the origin of the Schmidt backbore, here is what I have been able to put together.

I first found ads from 1930 and 1934 in International Musician magazine for mouthpieces, "made by the world-famous mouthpiece maker L. A. Schmidt." These were sold through Elkhart Musicians Supply Co, in Elkhart, Indiana.

Mouthpieces I have found are labeled, "Orig. Schmidt's Intervall" and "L.A. Schmidt Coln."

The New Langwill Index cleared things up. Leopold August Schmidt inherited a brass instrument business in Koln, Germany from his father Fredrich, in 1893. He then continued this until his death in 1921. His widow Helene continued the business until she sold it in 1938 to Gebruder Alexander. There is mention that Schmidt invented a screw-rim mouthpiece in 1902.

Perhaps Bach, or other early mouthpiece makers in the US, knew about his mouthpieces and adapted the backbore for their use.[/i]
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartok wrote:
It's the normal BB on a B cup mouthpiece. Very open, different shape from the 24.

Is this confirmable? It may explain why I've had so much enjoyment playing a Bach 6B lately.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Bartok wrote:
It's the normal BB on a B cup mouthpiece. Very open, different shape from the 24.

Is this confirmable? It may explain why I've had so much enjoyment playing a Bach 6B lately.


I wish I had a working link, but the old Kanstul Backbore Comparator could show it.

You could give this one a try.

https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/bb.html

It is my understanding that relative to the #24, the #7 flares out after the throat a bit faster but averages a slightly narrower profile. The #24 has multiple tapers, including a flare at the exit that the #7 doesn't have.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Tom.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Bartok wrote:
It's the normal BB on a B cup mouthpiece. Very open, different shape from the 24.

Is this confirmable? It may explain why I've had so much enjoyment playing a Bach 6B lately.


Perhaps more information than you want - Matt Frost's dissertation:

https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/handle/1773/25455
Click on the PDF download link to the left

Frost breaks the backbore cubic capacity down into several segments and basically concludes that the overall cubic capacity "big" is not the determining factor for how dark a mouthpiece sounds. The shape is more important. I'll add that a backbore does not have to be open blowing to be dark. (Warburton 6 vs. the Warburton 7)

You might do an experiment and order a Bach 6BM - it comes stock with a #24 backbore (Ok - it comes with a #26 throat too.) I think the 6B is "dark" and the 6BM is "brilliant" - not "bright". The 6BM is a nice C trumpet mouthpiece.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Andy. I'm playing a Yamaha "Shew" Z and I want to darken up its core, so I have a custom M/K Tuning Slide and the Bach 6B helps as well. Helps give me a bit of insight.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:

You might do an experiment and order a Bach 6BM - it comes stock with a #24 backbore (Ok - it comes with a #26 throat too.) I think the 6B is "dark" and the 6BM is "brilliant" - not "bright". The 6BM is a nice C trumpet mouthpiece.


If you are a 1C rim fan, or a fan of any other rim besides the 6, the mouthpiece can be threaded for larger rims. I always felt that the 6BM was the mouthpiece to thread instead of a 5B with the extra backbore and throat changes, since the 26/24 is symphonic standard. Now, Bach offers the symphonic series which has these alterations custom cut at the factory, but I still own a 6BM threaded for a 1C rim that has a special place in my heart.

The "M" in the title was supposedly for Mellophone. I can't recall where I heard that, but I know I had a collection of 6BM pieces in my office when I started a job where the program had Bach mellophones (the ones Olds had made for them, not the later Yamaha ones).

Have a great day!

Al
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Thanks, Andy. I'm playing a Yamaha "Shew" Z and I want to darken up its core, so I have a custom M/K Tuning Slide and the Bach 6B helps as well. Helps give me a bit of insight.


OK - more information - good. I think the 6B is dark but "bell like" in attack. If you want something that is dark but "dense" in sound with more of a cornetish attack you might try the Bach 6 or a Curry 6 TC mouthpiece (sort of a Bach 6 on steroids.)
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