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Marvin75
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:21 am Post subject: Martin Committee equivalent |
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I play a Martin Committee #2 bore.
Love it!
Which modern trumpet comes close to the same feel/blow/resistance? |
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Brassnose
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Claims have been made for
Kanstul 1603 (I think that is the model number)
Adams A9
Lawler C7
Schilke B7
Schilke Handcraft 1 and 2
Yamaha lightweight horns (Shew models?)
I have only played the B7 and much (!!!) prefer the B6, soundwise, but that is just me.
Certainly the experts will chime in; I have never played a committee  so take this with the famous grain of salt.
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Dayton
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:38 am Post subject: |
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There have been a number of "improved" versions of the Martin Committee, such as those listed by Brassnose. My sense is that the more "improved" it is the less Committee-like it is.
In that regard, I think that the Kanstul 1603, or perhaps the "Martin Committee" model from The Martin Brasswind Company (made by BAC) -- which I haven't played -- probably comes closest.
I really liked the Lawler C7 ML and XL, which Roy advertised as being Committee-like with improved intonation, and thought that the Adams A9 was a nice horn as well, but didn't get the sense that either would be mistaken by a purist for an actual Committee. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | Claims have been made for
Kanstul 1603 (I think that is the model number)
Adams A9
Lawler C7
Schilke B7
Schilke Handcraft 1 and 2
Yamaha lightweight horns (Shew models?)
I have only played the B7 and much (!!!) prefer the B6, soundwise, but that is just me.
Certainly the experts will chime in; I have never played a committee so take this with the famous grain of salt. |
Both the Kanstul 1603 and Schilke HC1 & 2 are large bore horns, not the medium bore of the Martin you are referencing. I'm pretty sure both the Adams and Lawler horns listed above can (could) be made in medium bore versions.
There are probably less than a dozen 1603s in existence.
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Croquethed
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: |
There are probably less than a dozen 1603s in existence. |
I met Wallace Roney in 2019 and asked him about his horn. He was sure to emphasize its Committee qualities over the Kanstul part. I think the shop had closed by then. |
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Halflip
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | I'm pretty sure both the Adams and Lawler horns listed above can (could) be made in medium bore versions. |
I was investigating the Lawler C7 when it first became available. If I recall correctly, it was available as a medium bore (#2), but used an ML valve block (sourced from Getzen). I always wondered if using an ML block on a horn that was otherwise a medium bore would produce a "blow" that was different from an original Martin Committee #2 bore. Maybe not; I never actually got to try one.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I own a Yamaha Shew.
I have owned three Committees
have owned an Adams A-9 and
Schilke B-7
and test-played others.
I thought the Adams A-9 medium bore had the most classic Committee bebop sound. It blows similar, has better (but not tight) slotting and better intonation. Additionally, I think it works better than the original horn in sections.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Subtropical and Subpar
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Croquethed wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: |
There are probably less than a dozen 1603s in existence. |
I met Wallace Roney in 2019 and asked him about his horn. He was sure to emphasize its Committee qualities over the Kanstul part. I think the shop had closed by then. |
Are we talking fewer than a dozen 1603s or just fewer than a dozen of the 1603+ Wallace Rooney models?
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | | Croquethed wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: |
There are probably less than a dozen 1603s in existence. |
I met Wallace Roney in 2019 and asked him about his horn. He was sure to emphasize its Committee qualities over the Kanstul part. I think the shop had closed by then. |
Are we talking fewer than a dozen 1603s or just fewer than a dozen of the 1603+ Wallace Rooney models? |
I have had three different 1603s in my possession at one time or another and played another one (maybe, maybe not - more later) at the 2016 ITG show in Anaheim. I was fairly connected to Kanstul because of their need to get the word out about this project. It gave me the chance to interview and get to know Wallace Roney a little before he passed away.
To the best of my knowledge there were three 1603+s built. One for Wallace, one for display and another one for a customer. When I heard of the third one, Jack Kanstul was excited to tell me that someone had ordered one. I know that the display horn was also sold to a customer after the NAMM show in 2018.
The ITG horn was a 1603 development horn. I asked Jack where it ended up because, IMO, it was by far the best of the four 1603s I had played. Jack had no idea whether it ended up gong to Wallace or to a customer or somewhere else. I have a suspicion it ended up being the 1603+ that they lacquered in a deep blue (which I had for a time and wrote an article for), then stripped and relacquered for the NAMM show in a really gorgeous medium satin blue. That was also a great playing horn.
The two 1603s I had were so different from each other. The first one sounded amazing, but was really finicky to play. The second one, which Mark had made for me to present at a Phoenix trumpet hang, played nicely and sounded good, but it just wasn't as magical as the ITG horn. This was the horn I had with a 1956 Martin Committee large bore Deluxe for a comparison article.
I know there were other development horns that were sold to customers and there were a few 1603s built to order. One or two TH members wrote about the ones they had purchased. So, a dozen horns is a good guess, I think. Laura, Carrie or Troy might be able to recount the real number, but good luck tracking them down! Jack certainly didn't keep track.
Wallace Roney and his Kanstul 1603+ at the factory for the 2018 NAMM Show
The NAMM Show display horn, formerly lacquered in deep blue
Phoenix Trumpet Hang 1603 beside 1956 Martin Committee #3 bore Deluxe
1603 from my "1603 Experience" article.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that rundown, Brian! I never would have guessed there were so few 1603s around, just given how many horns Kanstul made over the decades. It does seem to be one of the last horns they developed though, per your timeline.
That blue lacquer is just exquisite. Trent has a Kanstul 991 from his collection up for sale that has a similar (or identical?) blue lacquer and a Dizzy-style bell. Can't imagine Kanstul made too many 991s in that configuration!
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1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
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1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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chapahi
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Martin Committee equivalent |
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| Marvin75 wrote: |
Which modern trumpet comes close to the same feel/blow/resistance? |
Just in terms of feel/blow/resistance, as you post the question, a lot of horns would be similar. If it's specifically the committee sound you want in another horn, that's another story.
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mr oakmount
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delano
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| There is no Committee equivalent. |
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yourbrass
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:10 am Post subject: |
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There's a player here in the Bay Area who has a 1603 that I've worked on and played. It's a pity that the company folded - that horn plays better than any Martin #3 I've ever played.
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Marvin75
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't the 8310Z based on a Martin Committee? |
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Halflip
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Marvin75 wrote: | | Isn't the 8310Z based on a Martin Committee? |
Not closely, the way the Adams A9 and Kanstul 1603 are, but I've heard it was supposed to fill a similar role and provide some of the same playing qualities.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Dayton
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Isn't the 8310Z based on a Martin Committee? |
The starting point for what eventually became the 6310Z was a Martin Committee. Bobby Shew liked the sound, but not other aspects of that horn, so he and Yamaha experimented with variations on a Committee-like bell until they found an original set up that they liked. In that regard it is less like a Committee than other horns that have been mentioned. |
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A.N.A.Mendez
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | There is no Committee equivalent. |
Agree, and why bother or worry about finding something close ? Just get a nice vintage Committee and enjoy. Of all the trumpets I've owned, nothing compares to THAT sound.
I love my Olds Super Recording the best, but if you want to sit in the corner by yourself and noodle around...... Nothing compares to the Committee.
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: |
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This conversation (that constantly reappears year after year and just won't die) is absurd.
Get the horn that works for you. The horn that makes it easier to sound the way you want to sound.
If that's a vintage Committee, great. If its an Adams, great, if its a Calicchio 1S2 that makes it easy to break glass at a quarter mile, great.
Seeking a horn because someone played it, or said that they think its fantastic, is just plain foolish. We are all different, our goals are different, and even if your goal is to sound like somebody who played a Committee, that doesn't mean you will sound that way - even on his/her own horn.
There is a synergy between player and equipment, and people are too diverse by nature for what works for one to work the same for another.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I can see the following reasons for getting a modern Committee-like horn:
horn is warranted
less mechanical problem potential on a new horn
more secure slotting
more secure intonation
This is not to imply that none of these "problems" can't be overcome, even preferred, just that this answers the question "why". And I think these are valid considerations, having had three Committees, two Shews and an Adams A-9.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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