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kalijah
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Great video here by Phyllis Stork here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwWGLV8AqA&t=188s Go to 3:00 to see the demo.
I like how Phyllis presents it so simply, gives a visual for us visual types, and doesn't get into Bernoulli's equation, compressible vs incompressible fluid flow, compression, etc. |
Her experiment is poorly designed and leads to an erroneous conclusion. I spotted the flaw immediately. Water flowing out of bowls and funnels by gravitational effect is not equivalent to how a mouthpiece cup may affect the instruments acoustics. More later. |
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Big C
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Kalijah, I find these discussions fascinating and, honestly, I don't know what to believe. Is there somewhere I can find a comprehensive version of your ideas on this, complete with visuals, analogies, or whatever might help me understand them better?
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gwood66
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| bach_again wrote: | So my first suggestion is to hook up with Bryan Davis for a lesson. He is fantastic at relaying what you need to know, and helping you find your upper register.
When I find I have issues and I go back to the routines Roger Ingram and Bryan Davis taught me - within a few days I am feeling much better, and in a week or 2 I feel like I am advancing.
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^^^^Great advice from Mike IMO.^^^^
Based on what he said during the Trumpet Gurus Podcast, Bryan was having significant chop problems and went to Roger to get it figured out. If you haven't watched Bryan's A to Zed youtube video series I think it would be worth your time. While he uses some of the terms and analogies admonished in this thread, I found them useful in helping improve my upper register. His pro tips videos are also great along with all of the exercises and book on his website.
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Big C wrote: | | ... Is there somewhere I can find a comprehensive version of your ideas on this, complete with visuals, analogies, or whatever might help me understand them better? |
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Not Darryl (Kalijah),
but my view is that for 'playing' it's most important to have good understanding of what the embouchure needs to DO, and to find the physical ways to make that happen - but not necessary to understand the precise physics or physiology.
For 'teaching', the student has to be somehow 'guided' to awareness of what needs to be DONE, and helped to achieve the skill to do it.
My views about what the embouchure needs to DO are here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm
I think that many people can benefit from being more conscious about what they are DOING, and determine how it affects their playing.
If something is attempted but fails to produce the desired results - why?
Is it not being done correctly, or is it flawed from the onset?
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Steve A
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Bethmike wrote: | Steve A,
I agree. I imagine that the role of my tongue is to create a funnel shape at the exit point of my oral cavity. And I can adjust the opening at the small end of the funnel.
Great video here by Phyllis Stork here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwWGLV8AqA&t=188s Go to 3:00 to see the demo.
I like how Phyllis presents it so simply, gives a visual for us visual types, and doesn't get into Bernoulli's equation, compressible vs incompressible fluid flow, compression, etc. Dynamic systems of compressible fluids is not what most musicians study.
In any case, it is a visual that benefits me, and I am now playing above High C as a hobbyist after 2.5 years. Once warmed up, I can pick up horn, and hit a High C as my first note.
Mike |
It might be a useful visualization, which is great if it helps you, but this is A: the opposite of what I was saying, and B: not, in my total non-expert view, a very good parallel to what happens when we're playing.
Pouring water through a funnel is different than driving it out of a closed space under pressure. In the pouring experiment, all the air that's being displaced by the liquid needs to go somewhere, and that air is the big difference between these two. The funnel shape vents the outgoing air more efficiently than the irregular flow going through the flat bottomed cup, and that's why it pours faster. Playing doesn't work like this - it's a one-way process. We push air out, but don't replace that air until we stop playing.
If the two containers of liquid were turned upside-down and the liquid was pressed out with upwards force from the bottom, I don't think we'd see the same effect, but that's a closer parallel to what we do while playing. |
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: Science and application of Scientific Principles |
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I think that a lot of the confusion that seems to happen when discussing how trumpet playing 'works' is due to not FIRST having a good understanding of 'what is really physically happening' when a trumpet is played.
Most 'science' is done by studying and quantifying 'what is happening', and then trying to find (or devise) explanations to explain why the 'known results' are occurring. And hopefully (this is the BIG value of science) to make theories (equations, IF-THEN relationships, etc.) that can successfully PREDICT what will happen without the need to 'try and see what happens'.
The topic of 'what is really physically happening' when playing trumpet involves many different aspects that are difficult to see and measure - so getting an understanding of it is not easy. And discussing it is complicated by individual 'feelings' and 'beliefs'.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
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Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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What has worked for me ...
(1) I play a 10.5C these days (started on a 7C). I have a very small mouth and thin lips ... close to zero impingement into the cup; thus, I can utilize the entire cup even on a shallower mouthpiece (everything is Relative).
(2) I discovered through trial ... that I prefer a V cup for range or lead playing.
The Nicholson Monette Prana XLT works great for me ... small v cup; 23 drill and short shank
(3) My range really went to town when I discovered how to play above high Ab.
I know my range would be even better; however, I am limited in the time that I have to practice (usually an hour to 90 minutes) once per day.
(4) The right equipment for your physiology and actually learning how to compress. Octave glissandos are good for this; Clarke Technical Studies #1 is also. Try that Bill Adam style start half way ... mayb exercise 17? then play 18, then 16 ... then 19 ... then 15 and so on. Jon Faddis recommends Clarke Technical Studies #1. As some one mentioned, it takes very little air and more compression to play high. Roger Ingram has a good youtube video on this where he is demonstrating to a class.
(5) You are now BLESSED with Youtube.com. Didn't even have the internet or a microwave when I was growing up. Watch artist on Youtube.com ... do you notice any physical adjustments when they play higher ? I have experiemented extensively in horn angle; raising the shoulders etc.
My opinion (and Allen Vizzutti's as well) is that most people play mouthpieces that are too big. I can play a Marcinkiewicz Personal (I own 2) which is about a Bach 1.25C I am told by Mohan. It is a V cup and get a very good sound to a high D and tht is it. It is NOT a Lead Mouthpiece or range mouthpiece. As Bobby Shew would say, use the equipment for the job. Lip Trills are good also for teaching what to do with the tongue etc.
Hope this helps.
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Robert P
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Notlem wrote: |
Of course if I do a reset, my high f is pretty good, but a double embrochure is not my goal, and the lower notes don’t sound flattering in that position. |
Could you post video playing say from a third space C or top of staff G as high as you can go with a solid sound?
Yes, ideally you want to be able to go from the bottom of the horn to the top of your range, though I think it's problematic for many.
Have you heard Doc's flawless low A to high F run at the end of "Granada" during his Command label days? The whole chart of course is a fantastic display of Doc's superb sound and control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3LamQXAx4
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Notlem
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | Could you post video playing say from a third space C or top of staff G as high as you can go with a solid sound? |
Hi Robert,
Doc is amazing, I remember seeing him live while I was in high school. He had the San Antonio symphony backing him.
I know what you are requesting and am only posting this because you requested it.
when I say reset, I did mean RESET, this is basically a second embouchure. It is one I cannot figure out how manipulate and I can barely play lower, maybe it could go down to F# but it starts sounding really bad below middle C. I can't seem to manipulate my lips at all with this setting.
I really do not want to go down the path of trying to connect this to my lower setting, but learn to manipulate my lower setting to play higher. All this will do in the end if give me two setups.
I know Doc and some of these guys can do it all on one setting and they are considered top notch, but why can't that apply to everyone.
Yes, I remember listening to an interview with Eric Miyashiro, where he stated that Maynard told him he had 7 or 8 different embrochures. I know listening to interviews of current lead players on trumpet diagnostics and the guru podcast, that some current players use more than one.
While I do realize this is probably what some others are doing, it opens up a whole other can of worms I don't want to touch, nor did I intend for this thread to pitfall into. I am afraid its gonna spark some comments in here I was trying to avoid.
So for your curiosity's sake, here you go:
https://youtu.be/CXcvRSqu0F8
-marc |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Notlem wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | Could you post video playing say from a third space C or top of staff G as high as you can go with a solid sound? |
when I say reset, I did mean RESET, this is basically a second embouchure. It is one I cannot figure out how manipulate and I can barely play lower, maybe it could go down to F# but it starts sounding really bad below middle C. I can't seem to manipulate my lips at all with this setting.
I really do not want to go down the path of trying to connect this to my lower setting, but learn to manipulate my lower setting to play higher. All this will do in the end if give me two setups.
I know Doc and some of these guys can do it all on one setting and they are considered top notch, but why can't that apply to everyone.
Yes, I remember listening to an interview with Eric Miyashiro, where he stated that Maynard told him he had 7 or 8 different embrochures. I know listening to interviews of current lead players on trumpet diagnostics and the guru podcast, that some current players use more than one.
While I do realize this is probably what some others are doing, it opens up a whole other can of worms I don't want to touch, nor did I intend for this thread to pitfall into. I am afraid its gonna spark some comments in here I was trying to avoid.
So for your curiosity's sake, here you go:
https://youtu.be/CXcvRSqu0F8
-marc |
Thanks for posting that - my curiosity is based in trying to help diagnose your issue.
I would say that *everyone* plays on multiple embouchures/settings.
My embouchure isn't the same on a low F# and a first space F# and F# at the top of the staff - is yours? Further different going to an F# over high C and again different going to a dub C when the chops gods smile upon me and one comes out which is becoming more frequent. I wouldn't describe it as at all the same setting.
This is me playing from low C to a fairly loud G over high C. Would you describe all the pics as being the same embouchure?
An anecdote from my own journey of chops dysfunctionality - once upon a time I couldn't play from a low F# chromatically to a high C even though I *could* play a high C if I approached it a certain way. I struggled with that specific skill for a long time - it was a huge point of frustration. You could have offered me a $100,000 tax free if I could do it and I couldn't have.
It's easy now - because I'm much more tuned in to what's going on when I'm playing than I was then.
You say you can't control that high note setting but you demonstrate enough control to play from third space C to a reasonable G - that's not "no control". You say you want to be able to do it all on one setting, I don't think that's possible. Try playing just a second line on the staff G at a pp, than go to a blastissimo - I guarantee you're not even playing that same pitch with the exact same setup from soft to loud. The teeth open a bit, the chops muscles tighten, do they not?
Tell me if this sounds something like what you experience - you play up from the bottom of the horn and you get to a certain point and it feels "off", weak, like you don't have the right "grip" to give you a solid handle to go higher.
I think you've got part of the puzzle, you *need* to touch that can of worms and learn to do what you need to do to put the ranges together - figure out how to move the right direction to make the changes. I don't think Maynard's multiple embouchures description is as mysterious or complex as it might sound. He clearly wasn't changing his placement, but he was saying he needed to make adjustments - so do you, so do I.
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Last edited by Robert P on Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bach_again
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Robert - without seeing video it would be hard to conclude, but it does look like you play with one embouchure. Your emboucure looks different, sure, but you have varying degrees of lip compression and track (or pivot as some call it) going on.
Learning a second embouchure set my playing back 10 years. The Reinhardt based Rich Willey was the first who set me on the path to repairing my playing. I was playing through Bob Odneal's Casual Double High C book and unwittingly developed an upstream emboucure. I gained some control over it, and relied on it on gigs any time a high note came up. Accuracy wasn't great, it was loud as hell and I could play high, but it was tearing down my existing embouchure and creating a whole raft of problems. 10+ years later I have been able to turn the tides. Even thinking about it makes me feel like I am doing damage to my playing (as silly as that sounds).
There are only a few successful trumpet players who demonstrably use 2 or more embouchures; Thomas Gansch, Steve Reid, Walt Johnson and Arturo Sandoval come to mind.
Addressing the anecdotal comment about Maynard's "7-8" embouchures - look at him playing, he simply doesn't. His early playing is a stone cold IIIB downstream with perfect mechanics. The Monette and later days exhibit IIIA tendencies, but when he sounded and played his best, he was rock solid in his chops. If he did say that, it could be argued that he was aware of differing feelings of lip sensation between his low middle, high, extreme high and dogs-only playing - or loud and soft in all those registers - be that musculature, or air based awarenesses etc... I am aware of several "gears" when playing, but it is all one emboucure IE I am playing with the same air direction, same engagement, track, pivot, air or whatever you want to call it.
Regardless of whether or not I am right about Maynard - the point is moot. He was a phenom. So are the others mentioned. I know that Steve Reid put in untold hours working out his WIG embouchure. I guess if you have that time to commit, and no real consequence of doing the exploration etc... then why not. Tho a line that Reinhardt admonished Chris LaBarbera with (after Chris, age 16 IIRC, asked Reinhardt to change him to a type IV upstream as he only wanted to be able to play triple Cs like Lin Biviano... paraphrasing no doubt) "I'm not going to ruin a perfectly good trumpet player just to get some squeaky high notes". Perspective is a hell of a thing.
Exploration is important, just keep sight of home base, and it is good to have someone to help keep you accountable and help you out as and when you need it. I have been most fortunate to have a wonderful mentor (Mic Smith) guide me through all such things mentioned, and he was extremely open minded about what could be tried etc... however at the core it must sound good, you must have control, and you don't sacrifice good playing mechanics for squeaky high notes (which is not to suggest you don't do exercises which sound bad/squeaky... the octave glissandi or Reinhardt squeekers hardly sound inspiring, but these are done on a familiar footing wrt embouchure).
Anyway I tend to find that the technical discussion of the function of embouchure gets in the way of actually playing music and getting better on the horn. I would suggest you forget the noise, contact Bryan Davis, do his exercises with blind devotion, and thank me in a year or 2 when you are playing low F#-double Cs.
Best,
Mike
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Destructo
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | An oral space with a high tongue has an EXTREMELY high resonance frequency (far above the tones we are playing with that oral posture) and an EXTREMELY weak resonance due to its unsymmetrical shape. These have very little influence on the pitch played and basically zero acoustical influence on high pitches.
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Thank you for answering this question for me. I
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Any DRASTIC or pronounced reduction in the flow path before the aperture will introduce significant losses to the air energy that reaches the lip aperture. That goes for a narrowed throat OR a narrowed oral space. Poiseuille's law always applies. |
I assume the emphasis is on "Drastic" because otherwise the pressure should equalise along the pathway to lips, right? So drastic would equate to a constriction that is smaller than the apeture size for the pitch in question?
But ultimately, any constriction wider than the apeture would just result in the pressure equalising throughout the system.
Have I understood the way that would work?
Thus, the tongue is really just working like a fine motor controller for the jaw, which in turn changes the size of the apeture... or something like that?
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Wilktone
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Interesting discussion.
I agree that some of the terminology that has become standard in brass pedagogy is less than ideal, but we're stuck with much of it. It is very helpful to take a step back and understand when the language is designed to be analogy and when it's intended for literal instruction. Nothing is wrong with either, pedagogically speaking, but it can be problematic when playing analogies conflict with each other, or with reality.
The more we can strive towards one single embouchure for the entire range, the better. I do believe that this is an achievable goal for pretty much everyone, but embouchure technique isn't something that is well understood by the field as a whole. Making this goal more difficult is what it means to use "multiple embouchures" in the first place. If you're resetting the mouthpiece for different parts of your range or otherwise reversing important aspects of your embouchure form to play different things, then I would consider this to be problematic and worth correcting. If you're just talking about making the adjustments that are required to change ranges, then this is just how a well functioning embouchure should work. If you're making a radical shift at some point, then the issue could be simply learning how to minimize that shift in some way or make the shift more gradual across your range.
And all of this depends on what you're currently doing and where you need to go.
Marc "Notlem," I really didn't see enough in your videos to be able to offer you specific advice. Much of the discussion (here and in the first video) may be superfluous to helping you get to the source of your issues, but since you haven't really demonstrated enough of the things I want to see I can't suggest otherwise. If you are willing and able to post more video, please take video of your chops much closer while playing, close enough so that your face takes up most of the view, but far enough back to be able to see your nose and chin too. And please video record yourself playing octave slurs so we can see not just what you're doing to make small changes while running up a scale, but the larger changes to play larger intervals. Something like this:
You mentioned resetting the mouthpiece to play higher, I would like to see the above octave slurs also with that mouthpiece placement to see and hear how it works. It might be possible for you to use this placement over your entire range, but if it's a different embouchure type than the way you're used to playing you could inadvertently be doing the opposite of what you should be doing to descend, which is why the sound isn't so good in the low register for this. Or maybe there's some reversal in embouchure form happening in the upper register with your current setting. Again, without seeing and hearing this close up and playing over your entire range, it's impossible to say.
Dave
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bach_again
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Robert P
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| bach_again wrote: | Robert - without seeing video it would be hard to conclude, but it does look like you play with one embouchure. Your emboucure looks different, sure, but you have varying degrees of lip compression and track (or pivot as some call it) going on.
Learning a second embouchure set my playing back 10 years. |
It seems there's an issue with terms - I'd be curious what "different embouchures" means to you.
In those pics of myself I see the configuration and muscular focus changing - as I go higher the corners draw down, the muscular tension is very different - to me that's a different setting/embouchure - I'm clearly not playing with the same setting.
Though you can't see it the angle and spacing of the teeth changes subtly, certainly the tongue level changes. I'd be very surprised - and skeptical - if anyone said theirs doesn't.
If everything is different one range extreme to another why do you not see that as different embouchures?
| Quote: | | There are only a few successful trumpet players who demonstrably use 2 or more embouchures; Thomas Gansch, Steve Reid, Walt Johnson and Arturo Sandoval come to mind. |
Are there any particular examples you can point to where what you're referring to can be seen?
| Quote: | | Addressing the anecdotal comment about Maynard's "7-8" embouchures - look at him playing, he simply doesn't. His early playing is a stone cold IIIB downstream with perfect mechanics. The Monette and later days exhibit IIIA tendencies, but when he sounded and played his best, he was rock solid in his chops. If he did say that, it could be argued that he was aware of differing feelings of lip sensation between his low middle, high, extreme high and dogs-only playing - or loud and soft in all those registers - be that musculature, or air based awarenesses etc... I am aware of several "gears" when playing, but it is all one emboucure IE I am playing with the same air direction, same engagement, track, pivot, air or whatever you want to call it. |
You're describing essentially the same thing I was referring to re: Maynard - he could feel changes - i.e. "gears" - going through the various ranges. However I'm still not clear how you're differentiating that from "different embouchures". I'm not at all clear what you mean by "engagement", and "track".
Air direction? Mine goes forward toward the mouthpiece - lol. 
I've heard people talking about what part of the mouthpiece the air is directed toward but A) how do you know? and B) are you saying this one element makes all the difference as to whether you're using a different or the same embouchure?
I'd be curious to see someone prove that as *any* player goes higher/lower and the lip tension, the aperture, teeth alignment, tongue level all change that the nature and direction of the "sprayage" of the air coming out of the lips doesn't change.
| Quote: | | Exploration is important, just keep sight of home base, |
What do you mean by "home base"?
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Notlem
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the request and taking the time out to do so.
I was moving my camera mic all around to place to get a good shot... and as soon as I was trying to get my mic in a better location, it was very apparent that I forgot my wife and I are both working from home today! She is on non-stop con calls, I got shut down pretty quickly!
Maybe ill get to it this weekend!
Robert,
With old age, comes remembering stuff wrong. I found that interview again and listened to it. Eric was talking about how he can move the mouthpiece to different locations when things are getting rough on long daily gigs. apparently I think he is saying Maynard could also move to multiple locations for the same reason. Apparently Maynard was such a monster that it did not matter where he placed the mouthpiece, he still got it done! Someone has confirmed he was human correct?
I cut the clip for you, but suggest you watch the whole video, it was a really good interview:
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9-LEMiYJq2nxqlHx2xHxtGyPGpETYlet
-marc |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Notlem wrote: |
Robert,
With old age, comes remembering stuff wrong. I found that interview again and listened to it. Eric was talking about how he can move the mouthpiece to different locations when things are getting rough on long daily gigs. apparently I think he is saying Maynard could also move to multiple locations for the same reason. Apparently Maynard was such a monster that it did not matter where he placed the mouthpiece, he still got it done! Someone has confirmed he was human correct?
I cut the clip for you, but suggest you watch the whole video, it was a really good interview:
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx9-LEMiYJq2nxqlHx2xHxtGyPGpETYlet
-marc |
Thanks for posting that. He said Maynard might have been kidding about his seven embouchures but it's too bad he didn't probe further and get specifics of what Maynard meant.
Maynard was seemingly unusual in that while other aspects of his playing lost their luster in his later years he retained an anytime he wanted it double C.
I read that the very last thing he played on trumpet was "Taps" for a funeral they had for his granddaughter's cat. A few days later he died - I gather he hadn't been in the peak of health for some time due to diabetes but it was managed. Apparently his body just crashed suddenly. I believe they were already planning his next tour.
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Wilktone
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Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 727
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | It seems there's an issue with terms - I'd be curious what "different embouchures" means to you.
In those pics of myself I see the configuration and muscular focus changing - as I go higher the corners draw down, the muscular tension is very different - to me that's a different setting/embouchure - I'm clearly not playing with the same setting. |
Yes, I do think there is a question of semantics going on here.
When you state you're not playing on the same "setting," I usually interpret that to mean that you're moving the placement of the mouthpiece on the lips to a different position. You can do this and still play with the same general embouchure type, but I would generally not recommend having to replace the mouthpiece for different parts of your range.
Some of the other things you describe I personally would not really define as an "different embouchure," just a continuation of proper technique necessary for changing registers. Sometimes players will have a sensation that they "switch gears" at some point in their range. As I alluded to in my earlier post, sometimes those are things that could be eliminated with better results. Or sometimes the correct option is to make that change more gradual so that it isn't forced to make such a large shift at a particular point in your range.
Robert, based on your photos alone I don't see anything that would necessarily indicate a "different embouchure" for the different parts of your range. In order to really tell, however, I would need to see video of your chops in action.
Dave
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Notlem
Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2021
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dave,
In my followup for a diagnostic request, I kinda had a eureka moment and decided to isolate two different high note methods that I think I am mixing. Based on results, I believe I know my next steps and what path to follow in my journey.
I would like to thank everyone at the Trumpet herald that has contributed to this thread and helped elighten me to my understanding of the these concepts and made me think about my approach.
You are all fantastic and I am proud to be a part of your community. In the end, I will be reaching out to a new teacher and exploring what I seemed to have discovered in this little video I put together as a followup:
https://youtu.be/D2gqS7Gg3sw
I will not be posting other requests as I feel some time in the woodshed needs to happen. I wish I was able to get a better video close up, but I got too fuzzy with more zoom. I know that it is needed to categorize my playing type and am not sure it is is well enough to do so. Honestly, my dermatologist does not even want to see my face this close up, so fair waring to all!
Again, I can't express enough gratitude to all for helping me.
Thanks!
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-marc melton
48 years young
Comeback player since November 2021!
Georgetown, TX
2022 Bach 190s37 artist select
1976 Schilke X3lb
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ebolton
Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021
Posts: 123
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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My teacher has stressed to me he wants to see as little motion in my face as possible up and down the range, with aligns with your second demonstration in this latest video.
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