• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Which Olds Horn Slots More Accurately: Super, or Mendez?


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Brassman19
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 May 2019
Posts: 163
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:25 pm    Post subject: Which Olds Horn Slots More Accurately: Super, or Mendez? Reply with quote

Here's a question for all the TH Olds aficiondos out there.

I am in process of looking into and considering possibly getting for my "arsenal" one of two higher-end Olds models trumpets, either a Super, or the Mendez. However, my aims in thinking about doing so is I would like to get another Olds horn (I love Olds' trumpets and cornets) which blows pretty freely, is responsive, and, especially, which slots and plays very accurately in the center of notes, yet still has some flexibility in its tone. In terms of what I can possibly afford (app $800- $900), those are the two models I think are the most likely candidates.

What are your opinions regarding these two models, and my stated goals? Or should I consider another of their models too, or instead, such as the Studio (prior to the all-nickel version), or even something like a late 60's/early 70's Recording?
_________________
1954 Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet (Yellow brass w/nickel silver bell flare, like the Olds Studio model)
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Robert Rizzo
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 136
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only ever played the Olds Recording & the Olds Super Recording; & you're right, the thing that struck me & has stuck with me about those trumpets was the slotting/note connections, along with the richness of tone. I have a feeling the Olds Super Recording has more room in the tone & larger slots?

Sorry, I have not played an Olds Super or Mendez, so I cannot comment on those instruments. But, I am interested & wished to comment on the topic.
_________________
Robert Rizzo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Tivolian
Regular Member


Joined: 22 May 2018
Posts: 83
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Olds Horn Slots More Accurately: Super, or Mendez Reply with quote

Brassman19 wrote:
Here's a question for all the TH Olds aficiondos out there.

I am in process of looking into and considering possibly getting for my "arsenal" one of two higher-end Olds models trumpets, either a Super, or the Mendez. However, my aims in thinking about doing so is I would like to get another Olds horn (I love Olds' trumpets and cornets) which blows pretty freely, is responsive, and, especially, which slots and plays very accurately in the center of notes, yet still has some flexibility in its tone. In terms of what I can possibly afford (app $800- $900), those are the two models I think are the most likely candidates.

What are your opinions regarding these two models, and my stated goals? Or should I consider another of their models too, or instead, such as the Studio (prior to the all-nickel version), or even something like a late 60's/early 70's Recording?


My first trumpet was a 1955 Super and I now own a 1958 Mendez. I did not own them both at the same time, so my ability to compare is limited. Both are outstanding trumpets that slot well and have superb intonation. I would say the Mendez gets the nod just for the beauty of its tone. They both have an easy, relatively open blow. You can’t go wrong with either one, as long as it’s a good specimen. I’m not sure it’ll be easy to find a great Mendez in that price range.
_________________
Tivolian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5225
Location: ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez, also the most versatile horn they made, very misunderstood too. VERY different and very pro instrument.
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is misunderstood about it, ANA?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5225
Location: ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old saw that it's a hopped up Ambassador, somebody read that somewhere and they quote it.
The Mendez model is unique just like it's namesake.
I've studied them over the years.
The have unique ferrules, the receiver is Mendez only, water keys (most Olds in the era they started had trombone water keys), The conical graduation of the lead pipe and bell is different, the triggers of course.
The first model (1952) to have straight balusters throughout the model line.
Also first model to have single pin valve guides , The case is Mendez only, the finger ring, the bracing is very different, each came with a Mendez mouthpiece,

AND

Don't forget each Mendez had gold plated finger buttons (I'm sure Rafeal had something to do with this )
They play beautifully too.

Try one, you'll like it.....
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚


Last edited by A.N.A.Mendez on Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mendez model is based on his very favorite French Besson. It is one horn that I wouldn't mind having, the other is a great Chicago Benge.
I have a Super from the early 60s and it does not compare with the Bach 190/37 or Schilke B1 that I have.
Bear in mind that Mendez played his Olds in public performance but always used his old Besson on recordings.
R. Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
Bear in mind that Mendez played his Olds in public performance but always used his old Besson on recordings.
R. Tomasek

Do you think that was for endorser promotion or actual acoustic differences in the horns and their appropriateness for their playing environments?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Christian K. Peters
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1529
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:34 am    Post subject: Which Olds Horn slots harder Reply with quote

Hello all,
For me, the 1947 Olds Super I had, had more resistance than my Special. Possibly harder slots as well, though it has been a few years ago. That was disappointing for me, as I thought I had landed the grail.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez honored his contract with Olds and it made him a good sum of money. He was required to play it in public as did his sons when they performed with him.
When he signed with Olds, he was given (I believe) $10,000.00 and his wife was given a fur coat.
He thought about cancelling the deal, but his wife wanted the coat.
That deal was a money maker for Olds.
There is more about this in the Mendez forum, especially how unhappy he was with the first one presented to him.
R. Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Brassman19
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 May 2019
Posts: 163
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then, it sounds like the Mendez horn is what I should consider getting. Thanks for all the feedback. It has helped me a lot.

Now I have just one other question/concern regarding the Mendez trumpet, in particular, over its first and third slide triggers.

Those of you who have, or have played the Mendez horn, can you tell me, are its triggers easy to operate and adjust both together, and individually, to fine-tune its intonation while playing? The reason I ask is I have always had and played horns which have a third slide ring and first slide saddle on them (that is, until I got my 1962 Leonard Smith Contempora trumpet, which has/had a first slide trigger on it--More on that in a moment), so I am accustomed to adjusting for tuning by spreading my left hand's thumb and ring finger. In fact, so much so that I absolutely could not figure out how to coordinate things to use my Contempora's first slide trigger-- I ended up taking it off (though I retained its mounting brace on the valve block, and saved the trigger and all its parts, in case I ever decide to sell or trade it), and had an adjustable ring with lock box and screw added to the first slide's ferrule, so that I can play it.

I realize that the Mendez's triggers are unique, in that all one has to do to use them is squeeze together one's thumb and ring finger, which would seem to be a lot more natural than having to throw out one's left hand ring finger, while at the same time push your thumb against the first slide's trigger, causing both digits to have to move in the same direction at the same time (which is VERY awkward for me to try to do). In your experience, any of you who have played or also have horns with a third slide ring, and first slide saddle/ring, do you find it relatively easy and comfortable to also transition to play and adjust using your Mendez's triggers?

Thanks again for everybodies' thoughts and feedback to my questions.

Larry
_________________
1954 Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet (Yellow brass w/nickel silver bell flare, like the Olds Studio model)
1961 pro Holton Galaxy Trumpet
Bach 1C mp (Trumpet,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JonathanM
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2013
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in agreement with several of the above posters; a good Mendez horn is a fantastic player. To me, the first trigger on the Mendez is easier than than the third to become accustomed to. Frankly, I removed my third trigger and didn't use it at all - just left the slide out about 1/4" and enjoyed life. Of course my Father was olds school and thought tuning slides were a waste of time. "Lip it!!!" I can still hear him say heatedly (well, what do you expect from an old trombonist??).

I had a '54 Ambassador (LA factory markings, at least) and a '52 Mendez (definitely LA) at the same time. The Ambassador was a REALLY nice player. In retrospect, I think it's tone quality was probably in the top ten horns I've ownded, but the Mendez... Ah, what a great horn. Valves like butter!! Simply a marvelous player and the fellow I sold it to agreed wholeheartedly. My Mendez played darker than I expected. The Recording I kept plays brighter than I expected, but every horn is different, aren't they? And players, too; and I don't really light most horns up.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
patdublc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Salisbury, MD

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pondering the same fascination with Olds so I've started working on my collection. So many beautiful horns were made. My experience to date is that the Super Recording is all that. It just sings. It is pretty mouthpiece sensitive especially from second line G down. I haven't isolated the parameters yet that cause the mouthpiece sensitivity but I'm working on it.
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5225
Location: ca.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
I've been pondering the same fascination with Olds so I've started working on my collection. So many beautiful horns were made. My experience to date is that the Super Recording is all that. It just sings. It is pretty mouthpiece sensitive especially from second line G down. I haven't isolated the parameters yet that cause the mouthpiece sensitivity but I'm working on it.


Nothing like starting at the top !
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Happy Canuck
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 366
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:20 pm    Post subject: Don't Forget the Custom Reply with quote

Just a reminder that based on the Custom Codes http://rouses.net/trumpet/custom/custom.htm The Custom is basically a light weight Mendez.

The most frequent 'Custom' code on both the leadpipe and the bell is 37117 which translates to :
3 - Olds
7 - Mendez
1 - direct copy
17 - .017" thickness

No triggers and a fantastic horn!!
_________________
Bill


Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bogey Factory
Regular Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 56
Location: Springfield, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I currently own a Super, Mendez, and Recording. I have owned Ambassadors and an Opera. Of the Olds horns I've owned the Super is easily my favorite. It is flexible but has plenty of slot. I like my Recording but it is a stiffer responding horn than my Super. My Mendez is OK but unremarkable compared to the Super or Recording. The Ambassadors I've had were fine but again unremarkable. The Opera had a fantastic sound but I was unable to play it in tune. It was a real bear in an ensemble.
_________________
Justin Shaw
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aquaries
Regular Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2017
Posts: 16
Location: Cape Coral, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:24 am    Post subject: Mendez valves Reply with quote

I bought a new Mendez in 1961. The valve action is what sold me when I compared it to Conn & King. Of the few other trumpets I handled over the years none came close to the responsiveness of the Mendez valves. So I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of why the Mendez valves were so unique and if there are other models equivalent?
_________________
1960 Olds Mendez
1965 King Super 20 SS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogey Factory wrote:
My Mendez is OK but unremarkable compared to the Super.
+1...I have only tried one, but not even close compared to the 5 Supers I was fortunate enough to find over the years.
Still own three of them, two of the original owners wanted to buy their two back
They are each wonderful, yet unique...so much fun to play- highly suggest picking one up if you can!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1947 Los Angeles Super Recording, a 1962 Fullerton Recording, a 1947 Los Angeles Super, a 1965 Fullerton Opera (Nickel Silver Bell), and a 1966 Fullerton Mendez. Here's how they play:

Super Recording: Excellent in every way.
Recording: The same as the Super Recording but a richer sound.
Super: I played this horn in front of a room full of jazz students along with my other Olds horns and asked for their opinion regarding the sound. Their opinion is that it was the least projecting of the Olds horns. It doesn't seem like that when you play it but that's the response I got from the students. Mine has the rare brass ring and it is extremely light weight, probably the lightest weight horn I own. Most of the Supers have the nickel silver ring and the weight fluctuated a lot over the production years. Mine has the loosest slots of the group.
Opera: A great horn. Great sound. Good slotting. It just takes some getting used to as it is quite different from the other Olds horns with a .468 bore and a different bell mandrel and bell material.
Mendez: The best slotting horn of the group, very secure and very similar to my pre-war French Besson Meha. An excellent sound (although not as rich as the Recording). A great horn in every way.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndyDavids
Veteran Member


Joined: 08 Jun 2020
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
Here's how they play:
Thanks very much for the descriptions! I'm also looking for one- very helpful, actually the "This is Gold Jerry"
line from Seinfeld popped in my mind first
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group