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Chet's comeback approach?



 
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:34 pm    Post subject: Chet's comeback approach? Reply with quote

How did Chet Baker get his chops back after losing his teeth?

I know he played Long Tones, and he has referred to the other standard books, which may or may not just've been a short, glib answer. But what were his concepts of playing? How did he approach his playing in fundamental concepts rather than just the printed exercises, themselves? Has anyone seen this anyplace?
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has said that he couldn't get a sound at first, but just kept at it. Long tones, like you said. Just progressively getting back over time. He didn't take lessons or subscribe to an ideology/methodology.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Jaw04 said is similar to what I read somewhere. I'm sure there is more to it than that and others here hopefully will chime in because you pose an interesting question, kehaulani.
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Brent
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:05 am    Post subject: Chet Reply with quote

He talks about his comeback approach here (about 6 minutes into this)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS-euLdCvc
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have seen that, Brent, thank you. What I was more interested in (although Long Tones are important) wasn't so much what he played, as how. Any special approach (Maggio, Gorden et al).

From how he answered the question, I get the impression he meant a very conventual approach.
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craigtrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet's drummer and good friend Artt Frank wrote two books about his time with Chet, one is called "The Missing Years" and it is all about the years Chet was getting himself back into shape for his comeback. Here is an excerpt I had underlined that may help:


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Learson
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that?
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Learson wrote:
That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that?


Interesting thought, isn't it? I'm still trying to get one GOOD embouchure going. Incidentally, I've read that Mendez used alternate set-ups for the same reason; when he was became tired from long days, he said he'd switch to a different setup. I don't recall if his wording was the same as in this book, but as I recall it's the same basic concept. And I agree, Learson, it's thought provoking.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonathanM wrote:
Learson wrote:
That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that?


Interesting thought, isn't it? I'm still trying to get one GOOD embouchure going. Incidentally, I've read that Mendez used alternate set-ups for the same reason; when he was became tired from long days, he said he'd switch to a different setup. I don't recall if his wording was the same as in this book, but as I recall it's the same basic concept. And I agree, Learson, it's thought provoking.
Bud Herseth also spoke about moving the mouthpiece placement when he got fatigued.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like he just worked hard at re-training himself to play with and learning the limits of his altered setup. Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side?

At some point dental implants became available, did he ever consider them or did he never have the money?
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side?

That was before he was brutally assaulted by thugs who broke all his teeth off.

Robert P wrote:
At some point dental implants became available, did he ever consider them or did he never have the money?

The first modern dental implant was performed on a human in 1965. Given that a single tooth costs around $1,800 today (when the practice has become more commonplace and standardized), I doubt that he could have afforded a full set back in the 60's or 70's (although I guess they have ways of implanting a few 'anchor teeth' to be used as attachment points for bridgework). He probably didn't have many rich, charitable friends, either (and "Go Fund Me" wasn't around back then, let alone the internet). Finally, given his drug dependency, he undoubtedly had different priorities when it came to allocating funds.
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard him in a small club in the early 1980s. He did not play above middle C, but he still sounded amazing by constructing lovely lines.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riojazz wrote:
I heard him in a small club in the early 1980s. He did not play above middle C, but he still sounded amazing by constructing lovely lines.

+1

Despite his embouchure limitations, I think he got better at building solos from a music theory perspective. Sometimes his selection of pivot points while navigating changes was just awe inspiring.
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markp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet’s playing didn’t depend on technical proficiency. He could have picked up sax or piano. Or just stuck to singing. If you are Chet and just want to start blowing again after some horrible trauma, the physical issues are no barrier. He probably just started blowing for a while each day and the body/mind connection kicked in and he was off to the races in no time.

It’s ridiculous to think about Chet adhering to some classical regimen.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
Robert P wrote:
Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side?

That was before he was brutally assaulted by thugs who broke all his teeth off.

Okay - I was a bit vague on the details, I didn't know he was missing teeth before he got beaten by drug dealers. I've seen pics of him missing one or two uppers, I thought that was the result of the infamous beating he got.
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Aj
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I discovered Chet using a dual embouchure in this 1975 concert and found it very interesting so I searched and found this thread.

The video below clearly shows Chet using two embouchures. He gets a more fluffy tone and not much range with playing to one side and with his top lip protruding. Later in the fast ‘Mr B’ he plays more conventionally in his first solo, then back to the ‘red fleshy’ embouchure during trades.
He looks very undernourished in this clip too…

https://youtu.be/VGx67-CttaA?si=uMAxQQFV9AGcxnKY
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what Miles thought of him.

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