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Daily routines vs. Systematic approach



 
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AndrewS
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Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 125
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just started playing the trumpet (switched from trombone) and somewhat confused about which method of Mr. Gordon to take.
Firstly, I started practicing with "Daily trumpet routines" (starting the slur exercises), but now that I've got the "Systematic approach" which starts with long descending and ascending notes I am wondering if it's possible to combine them together in a daily practice? Or should I just finish with the Systematic approach and then turn to daily routines? Feels like they should be included in the same day practice but the author himself insist on precise usage of his method.

Thank you,
Andrew
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two books serve two different functions in a practice routine.
The first part of Daily Trumpet Routines is good to go at the first part of your practice.
In order to get the full benefit of DTR you must practice every model every day for at least a week (2 is better).
After Lesson 25 in DTR the book is more similar to Systematic Approach and could be used for a down routine.

Systematic Approach is something that should be practiced every day too.
It's purpose is range (from pedals to high notes), endurance, power, sound, control, plus other things.
You must follow the directions in both these books in order to not mess yourself up.
Rest as much as you play with the horn off your mouth.
Do SA only once per day.
Don't try more than three times for your highest note. Be patient and consistent in your practice.

I think Daily Trumpet Routines is a great book and you will develop comfort and accuracy on the trumpet with that book in a very short time. A couple years ago someone gave me a beautiful Miraphone BBb tuba and I had put it to use. I practiced DTR every day and all my scales. In a matter of several weeks I felt like I had accuracy on the tuba similar to my trumpet. I love that book. It doesn't take much time and it does so much.

Jeff
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vic
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Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 141
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff, I have been reading about SA taking one to 3 or 4 hours per day. I considered starting a more structured practice approach this summer, but I won't have that kind of time. Does the Daily Tpt Routines have that heavy a schedule too?
I am a comeback player, starting back last August after about 24 years. I played up through college level, but not as a music major. My practice time is limited [~30 min a day, looking for more this summer] with 4 kids and all that entails. My top goal in the short-run is better endurance.
What do you recommend? Thanks for the help.
Vic
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't know how anyone would spend four hours on SA. Maybe doing all the material associated with it. But, even the routines in SA that are longer shouldn't take that much time. SA usually takes between 30-45 min. depending on the lesson and the players range (playing more) and need for rest (more time).

DTR usually takes about 15 minutes or so. But, a practice routine can't just have flexibility. You should touch all the 7 items every day. The 7 items are the ones Gordon defines as the basics of playing.

Jeff Purtle
http://www.purtle.com
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Blue Devil
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff -

I started doing SA about a year and a half ago, and have been doing the lessons faithfully every day. I'm spending 2 weeks on each lesson, rather than 1 (I'm now on Lesson 35).

When you say "SA usually takes between 30-45 min.", are you only talking about Part 1 and Part 2 of each lesson? What I have seen throughout the book is that Part 1 and Part 2 of any lesson generally take me about 45 minutes total (including the short break in between the two parts). Part 3 (flexibility exercise) usually takes me about a half hour. Part 4 (where I'm at now is a St. Jacome exercise) can vary, depending how many models are assigned in St. Jacome - Lesson 35 for example assigns a St. Jacome that has the example and 5 models (including k tounging, which SA always adds to this part). This amount of models can take about a half hour, however, the St. Jacome exercises that have a lot more models (some with 15 or more models) can easily take an hour. Part 5 (for me now has been a Clarke characteristic study). Claude's instructions say to practice backwards, last measure first, practicing each measure 4 times, then when you have gotten to the end of the phrase, play the whole phrase four times, all the way to the beginning of the study, then practice it down from the top as you normally would - great way to woodshed a piece, by the way. I realized that my chops have a tough time at this point in the lessons, so I usually practice the measures/phrases two times each here. Even that reduced amount in Part 5 takes about 45 minutes to an hour, depending on the length of the study. When I was repeating the measures/phrases 4 times the Part 5 would take about an hour and a half. All of this takes into consideration resting as much as I'm playing.

This all is in addition to doing the breathing exercises for 20 minutes a day as well.

Sorry to bore you with all of the detail of the above, but you can see that all of the time for each lesson really adds up. Lesson 35 has been taking me about two and a half hours of playing total, and then 20 minutes of breathing exercises for about 3 hours total each day - and that is one of the shorter lessons (due mostly to the shorter St. Jacome exercise that is assigned in this particular lesson).

That all being said, you can practice all of this in segments, and spread it out during the day, in such a way that you get used to it, and once you do, it really doesn't seem like it is as much time involved as it is. I realize that these lessons take a lot of effort and committment, but I am really pleased with the results so far. Everything in my playing has greatly improved in the last year and a half...and I have lots of work still left to do.

Wasn't it Claude's intention with SA for all of the parts of each lesson to be done? If it was (which I'm assuming it was), I just wanted to point out that each lesson could easily take 3-4 hours each day.

Mike Trzesniak

P.S. Keep up the good work with the website - lots of good stuff!
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RGale
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Joined: 28 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took lessons with Claude Gordon, but I think his approach takes longer than many students want to spend. Maggio is where Gordon got a lot of his stuff, and Maggio takes less time. For all but very serious students, Maggio may work better.
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<I took lessons with Claude Gordon, but I think his approach takes longer than many students want to spend. Maggio is where Gordon got a lot of his stuff, and Maggio takes less time. For all but very serious students, Maggio may work better.>

The people that come to this forum are serious.
If you're anti-Claude, please don't post here and we won't ever bother you.

Eb
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RGale
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offence meant. I love the Gordon method books and use them regularly. I also learned a lot from the man.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

That is very cool you are doing everything according to the book. That was the way it was intended. It's main purpose is to show people how to put together a smart practice routine. I believe Claude was unique in regards to that.

When I studied with Claude we didn't follow every routine from SA. The other parts would be replaced with things such as St. Jacome's, Irons, Arban, Clarke and a bunch of other stuff. When I went through St. Jacome (p.157) he had me play half the models one day and the other models the other day. That might work for you. The point is to never get tired in the routine or you are tearing down and not building up.

The practicing from the end mentioned is very important to be done completely in order to develop many things. I have elaborated on this in my articles. Claude called that way of practicing "How You Practice." If you do it properly you will make it so that you never miss. It is good for both the physical and mental aspects of precise playing.

Jeff Purtle
http://www.purtle.com
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acompton
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Joined: 23 Jul 2022
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:30 am    Post subject: Bumping this thread Reply with quote

I can't find a really thorough sample or TOC anywhere online of either DTR and SA. If I was only going to purchase one of these to start with (budget ...) which one would it be?

From what I'm reading, I suspect DTR ... but anyone suggest the other?

Looking to mix up my hodge-podge of a routine (Bai Lin, Clarke, Arban, Vizzutti, etudes ...) and thought I'd try something more systematic in its presentation.

Thanks!

ac
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SA (along with the other related books) was presented to me first. Then later DTR.

That being said. If you have other books that you like to mix in for dedicated purposes...articulation, lyrical, etc. I think you'd be fine going straight to DTR.
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Bronxgroove
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
The two books serve two different functions in a practice routine.
The first part of Daily Trumpet Routines is good to go at the first part of your practice.
In order to get the full benefit of DTR you must practice every model every day for at least a week (2 is better).
After Lesson 25 in DTR the book is more similar to Systematic Approach and could be used for a down routine.

Systematic Approach is something that should be practiced every day too.
It's purpose is range (from pedals to high notes), endurance, power, sound, control, plus other things.
You must follow the directions in both these books in order to not mess yourself up.
Rest as much as you play with the horn off your mouth.
Do SA only once per day.
Don't try more than three times for your highest note. Be patient and consistent in your practice.

I think Daily Trumpet Routines is a great book and you will develop comfort and accuracy on the trumpet with that book in a very short time. A couple years ago someone gave me a beautiful Miraphone BBb tuba and I had put it to use. I practiced DTR every day and all my scales. In a matter of several weeks I felt like I had accuracy on the tuba similar to my trumpet. I love that book. It doesn't take much time and it does so much.

Jeff

Hi Jeff
I have been using daily routines with Physical Approach To Elementary Brass Playing. There are some great lessons in these books. Should you spend a week on each lesson or can you play a couple of lessons a day? How important is it to use all your air on the notes he has listed? Does it defeat the purpose if you don't do that? I just find it tiring to use all your air sometimes makes the practice even longer because you have to rest longer?
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