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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: Denis Wick 4B vs Bach 3B mouthpiece |
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Hello,
In trumpet I play a mouthpiece more or less like a bach 3C may be a little deeper and like 16,70mm diameter more or less.
For Cornet I tried Denis Wick 3B but felt very big, may be cause of the V big cup, then I tried Denis Wick 4B and felt fine for me.
I would like to know how the 4B compares with a Bach 3B.
The 4B is not in the Kanstul comparator.
thanks |
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Irving
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 1887
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| A Wick 4B feels like a Bach 6 or a Yamaha 13, to me. |
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9358
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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The Wick 4B is a good size for someone who plays a Bach 3C, as it seems to be an easy transition. The Wick throat and backbore are much more open than the Bach, though. The Bach 3B has a larger backbore and a more conical cup than the 3C. I used to have one, and while it had a beautiful sound, it was exhausting to play,
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:39 am Post subject: |
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The Wick cornet mouthpieces are sized in big steps of 0.5 mm.
A 4B is for that reason rather small, the 3B rather big for a 3C player.
For the middle way there is another serial of Wick mouthpieces, de Ultra. So there is a Ultra 3CU cornet mouthpiece in a 16.75 mm range. I have no experience with them but they seem to be quite good. Maybe mr.Seymor B. Fudd from Sweden can chime in here, he is more experienced.
BTW I own a 4B, 4H, 3H, 3B and 5B DW for cornet but I have doubts about the 4B. IMO it is not a very good mouthpiece in the cornet environment.
But I'm only a incidental cornet player, maybe someone who knows more of that stuff can give you more wisdom. |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | The Wick cornet mouthpieces are sized in big steps of 0.5 mm.
A 4B is for that reason rather small, the 3B rather big for a 3C player.
For the middle way there is another serial of Wick mouthpieces, de Ultra. So there is a Ultra 3CU cornet mouthpiece in a 16.75 mm range. I have no experience with them but they seem to be quite good. Maybe mr.Seymor B. Fudd from Sweden can chime in here, he is more experienced.
BTW I own a 4B, 4H, 3H, 3B and 5B DW for cornet but I have doubts about the 4B. IMO it is not a very good mouthpiece in the cornet environment.
But I'm only a incidental cornet player, maybe someone who knows more of that stuff can give you more wisdom. |
Mr Seymor B Fudd from Sweden just arrived:
Basic parameter: never played a Bach 3B (didn´t know they existed); began my playing life on a Sally Army 1 - to be replaced by a Bach (1970) 1 1/4 C.
I´ve owned and tried to play the Wick 4BW with nil success. Sold it.
Still owning Wick 3 and Wick 3B. Looking down into the 3 equals looking down an elevator shaft ending up in a huge bore. An extremely sharp alpha angle. I can play it up to G top of staff - but for a limited time. Impossible in a front row setting. The 3B has the same huge bore but is not that deep and is more playable; the alpha angle (slope from rim) not that extreme - however it´s not my cup of tea.
The Ultra series are deep, but exhibits kind of an extended C cupish cup yet V cupish; alpha angle not as sharp, but sharp, bore rather normal.
Quite recently I´ve tried, in the brassband (back row/repiano, just subbing), the Ultra 1,5C with some success. If I solely were to play the cornet I think that I might be able to master that one.
But as I play lead on a Schilke 14B, in the words of John Cleese the Wick is "something completely different"; rather demanding to combine.
The huge bore of the classic Wicks is a "mouthful" to cope with. Besides - personally I don´t like the rims. But then I´m used to the Schilke rims.
If the OP is a very experienced player he might be able to use the 3B/4B, the latter in particular. The Ultra 3C is slightly bigger than the Bach 3C, according to the DW site.
In my opinion the Ultra series seem to be a nice compromise - providing UK style softness to the cornet, yet being (rather) playable. The rim is more comfy (for me).
But ample practice is required.
Which brings me to the fundamentals: 1)Mouthpiece placement - deep mouthpieces seem to require, at least for me, more top lip (mouthpiece high on top lip)2)air - you gotta be skilfull in applying the correct amount of air or these mouthpieces will suck up your lungs.
In my opinion they don´t help you to play - demanding some "handling".
On the other hand - if there is a demand for rounded, soft, satin sound then they deliver.
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, I agree about the Denis Wick 3  , I tried it at the shop.
I am curious about the comparison between the Bach 3B and the Denis Wick 4B and Denis Wick 3B. To know is the Bach 3B is similar or has a lot less volume insight the mouthpiece.
About the Denis Wick Ultras, I don't. know cause I did not try them but from the description it seems they are more a trumpet mouthpiece with a cornet shank to use them in a Cornet. Something like normal Bach trumpet design with cornet shanks.
I am now playing the Denis Wick 4B and after 2 weeks I think I can control it, and yes, the sound is round and warm, different than the one in a trumpet mouthpiece but that's also the point of it. |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| kerouack wrote: | Thanks, I agree about the Denis Wick 3 , I tried it at the shop.
I am curious about the comparison between the Bach 3B and the Denis Wick 4B and Denis Wick 3B. To know is the Bach 3B is similar or has a lot less volume insight the mouthpiece.
About the Denis Wick Ultras, I don't. know cause I did not try them but from the description it seems they are more a trumpet mouthpiece with a cornet shank to use them in a Cornet. Something like normal Bach trumpet design with cornet shanks.
I am now playing the Denis Wick 4B and after 2 weeks I think I can control it, and yes, the sound is round and warm, different than the one in a trumpet mouthpiece but that's also the point of it. |
Nope the Ultras do not at all resemble a trumpet mouthpiece! They are deep but the "tunnel" is of a different construction than that of the Classics and the bore equals the 4B:s. The rim of the Ultras suits me bettere than that of the Classics. I would say that the 4B is quite like the Ultra but somewhat deeper; a somewhat different shape. Perhaps one might say that the Ultras are more V shaped than the Classics
So much for that 
Go look at the DW site!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you, problem is probably I can not try them in my city. |
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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:58 am Post subject: |
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I just tried in a shop a Bach 3B, comparing it to my Denis Wick 4B I play.
I found the Bach 3B too "trumpet like ", I thought the Bach B cup would be deeper or more V shape. |
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