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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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interfx Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2001 Posts: 678 Location: Atlanta, GA
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Justin, I think you've put a very nice list of topics to bring good horns to an even better playing point. I like this! Thank you! _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2048 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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You might want to add heavy caps. I have a Bach heavy on valve 3, which improves the sound (I think of it as „presence“) and the slotting. More heavy caps make the horn feel sluggish. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | You might want to add heavy caps. I have a Bach heavy on valve 3, which improves the sound (I think of it as „presence“) and the slotting. More heavy caps make the horn feel sluggish. |
Good call. Okay I added a new page with common after-market stuff like heavy caps, tuning slides, etc.
My original intention was to not make this document so much about after-market products, but more about physical adjustments you can make to your instrument at home without professional expertise. But I guess I already opened the door when I included the brass vs. nylon valve guides.
I could continue down this road and list optimizations offered by the great professionals, like valve alignments and James Becker's blueprinting service. And then there's the mouthpiece receiver gap and mouthpiece sleeves and.... I don't know, I feel like that road never ends and I want to focus on what the player can do for themselves at home.
I also included a short list of things to NOT purchase because they are bad, like the detestable Grime Gutter. _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I love that you put valve guards on there. In high school, almost everybody went through a phase where we had them.....and then we all went through a phase where we had tarnished valve clusters. I don't recommend them to my students and never use the nice Leather Specialties one that I still have. I know several players with highly acidic hands that benefit from them though. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3632 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Justin,
Excellent paper, you've covered many topics in a concise and understandable style.
My only concern would be Section 6, "Aligning the slides." To think of people starting to bend slides in an attempt to get them to work more smoothly is a little unsettling to a repair man who's seen many examples of "home repair."
Sure, get some calipers and have fun measuring things, but if something's not working right, please take it to a professional.
Best,
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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dalcorn4808 New Member
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 4
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Miketpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 563 Location: Seattle, Washington USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I replace the water key cork every two weeks (at least) on both my Bach Bb and C. Yes I’ve tried the super cork and for me, regular cork is superior from a sound perspective.
Mike |
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picctpt33 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2019 Posts: 96
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I replace the water key cork every two weeks (at least) on both my Bach Bb and C. Yes I’ve tried the super cork and for me, regular cork is superior from a sound perspective.
Mike |
What is the super cork? |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2322 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:53 am Post subject: |
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I would add "tone rings" to an addition - tone rings, which come stock on some of Bach's models, added between the 3rd valve bottom cap and the casing.
Like adding a heavy weight bottom cap has a focussing effect - but to a lesser degree.
Old school - you can add a rubber/nylon ring between the cap and casing to get a similar effect. I've seen some with this setup on all three bottom caps - but too much for my ear.
Combining a rubber ring with a heavy weight cap is a nice combo.
AND Grime Gutters can do a similar thing - loosening the bottom caps (especially the 3rd) by an 1/8th of a turn or so, then putting the grime gutter on, has a greater impact. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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markag Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2021 Posts: 24 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:15 am Post subject: |
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I've got a bach strad LR 43 from the late 90s that I've been playing for roughly 22-23 years. I got it my freshman year in high school, and now I'm 35 and play almost exclusively big band lead with it.
I put the Bach "heavy" trim kit on the horn a year or two after getting it back in high school, and I hadn't touched it since then. I've had a renewed focus in the last year or so on improving my playing ability and my setup, and I've started looking into other horns or what people are doing to customize the Strad to be better suited for big band lead work.
Over the last 6-7 months I've swapped out the original Bach tuning slide for an unbraced semi-round sterling silver tuning slide from M/K drawing. I noticed that I had a slight change in sound (my wife said I sounded darker while playing the first gig after making the swap), but the feel of the trumpet wasn't drastically changed (for me).
About 2 weeks ago I swapped out the Bach "heavy" kit that had been on my horn for 20 years with a Harrelson mod kit with the high efficiency valve stems. I keep putting the word "heavy" in quotes when referring to the Bach kit, because in reality, there is not much difference at all compared to the stock set of parts. When I got the harrelson kit, I could feel the dramatic difference in weight out of the package. Being an engineer, I got out my scale and documented the weight difference between the stock set that came on my horn, the Bach "heavy" trim kit set, and the new Harrelson pieces. The "heavy" Bach kit was only 30 grams heavier over the full set of pieces than the stock Bach parts that came on my horn. The Harrelson kit was over double the weight of the Bach "heavy" kit.
I just played my first big band gig with the Harrelson mod kit installed, and all I can say is WOW! I've never felt such a difference in my horn. It felt like it unlocked the upper register and let me walk right through like a wide open door. It's the most efficient I've ever played, and the ceiling I've always hit around double G / double A was gone. I accidentally hit a double high Bb at the end of a chart when I was going for a double G. The amount of effort my body was accustomed to for playing a double G was enough to give me a solid double Bb when I overshot the note!
I got done with the 90 minute gig and still felt like I could start it over and play it again. Did I mention the horn has never played this efficient? The upper register was what I was excited for the most, but all around the horn, the notes had a more centered tone that took less energy to produce. Better overall.
Long story short, don't just assume that the horn you have is as good as it can be. The Harrelson mod kit with valve stems was $225ish without extra bells and whistles. I think the Bach kits are similar, or more expensive in price. It is pretty easy to spend a little money, relatively speaking, to change the playing characteristics of the horn. |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3632 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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picctpt33 wrote: | Quote: | I replace the water key cork every two weeks (at least) on both my Bach Bb and C. Yes I’ve tried the super cork and for me, regular cork is superior from a sound perspective.
Mike |
What is the super cork? |
It may be in reference to the synthetic cork that Yamaha is using on some models. I've used it on some horns, and it's tricky; very hard and doesn't take a "seat" like cork does. You have to have it right on to the nipple to make it leak-free. I still prefer good quality cork. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Harrelson shim kit (total gap solution).
I have just regapped my 43 for use with Warburton mouthpieces.
Getting the gap right makes the notes feel more equally apart and this is the cheapest way to do it.
Also, Bach's own heavy caps really do help slotting above top C without the instrument feeling bogged down in the lower register. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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